Boycott Blackhawk Industries...

[Matt_Fisher]

I came across this post on Lightfighter and it seems like another chapter in the "Why Blackhawk Industries Sucks" saga:

http://lightfighter.net/groupee/forums/a/tpc/f/5436084761/m/5431049851

If it's true, then as a Canadian, I wouldn't be spending a cent on anything made by Blackhawk and telling everybody I know about it as well as contacting Blackhawk that since they don't view your dollars worthwhile, you'll spend them elsewhere.
http://www.blackhawk.com/contact_us.asp?d=

 

[Trinity]

nice link

doesn't work if we aren't registered with that site


try cut and paste... bring it here

 

[Matt_Fisher]

My bad...should have remembered the registration.   For those of you not registered, here it is:

http://lightfighter.net/groupee/forums/a/tpc/f/5436084761/m/5431049851
Posted 14 August 2005 02:58 PM  
I copied this from another forum I visit frequently. This incident happened to a buddy of mine and with his permission, have posted it here.

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Before I went to Mexico, I place a small order with this so called "top retailer to soldiers around the world". I needed a new pistol lanyard for my service pistol and purchased the 19.99 US dollar item online. On check out, I clicked on ground delivery regular mail. It counted up the sum of money I had to pay, 27.58 USD. When I returned from Mexico, A letter from Blackhawk was waiting for me. It was a bill for 75.98 USD. They decided for some unknown reason to charge me a 56.00 USD for some Miscellanious fee. I then received a note from UPS that I owe them 21.71 CDN for a brokerage fee. So far this 20 dollar item is now costing me over a 100 dollars CDN.

The first thing I did was tell UPS to kiss my ***. The second was to phone Blackhawk and ask them why they secrewed up. They stated due to the nature of the item I purchased, it could not be sent ground mail but had to be sent special delivery. I asked why a peice of phone cord with two loops on it had to be sent special delivery, they gave no satisfactory answer. I then asked why it cost me 56 USD for the privelage. They stated "because a package with it's weight and size, required a higher price to ship". Once again I asked how much could a peice of phone cord with two loops weighed. Once agian no satisfactory answer.

I then told them I wanted to cancel my order. They said "that due to the nature this is a special order item a "no return policy" was in effect. I then told them that I was a CDN soldier and I would pass the word to my fellow soldiers that Blackhawk was a company I would never do business with again due to the above mentioned reasons. They then stated that Canada had a "small number of soldiers whos buying power was not a concern of Blackhawk industries". I then told them that Canada was sending 2000 troups to the Stan and most of them would be in need of pistol lanyards. Still no change in their tune. I then told them that I was going to tell Visa to cancel my purchase due to unauthorized shipping charges. They said go ahead and we will take legal action. I told them to kiss my *** and have a nice day.

The third thing I did was phone Visa and tell them the tale. They said that do to the situation I was well within my rights to cancel payment because I did not authorize the change in shipping status. So I had Visa cancel paymeny.

The next thing I know is that I get a call from Blackhawk. It turns out it's some big whig and he is sorry for the problems caused on my behalf and asked that I keep our dealings private. I told them to piss off. He then asked if it was true that so many Candian soldiers would need pistol lanyards. I said yes and that I would be telling as many of them as possible not to by Blackhawk lanyards. It was at that time I was told that Blackhawk would give me the item for free and cover all the costs if I just shut up. Thats when I told them to get fucked.

The fourth thing I did was phone UPS and ask why I had to pay a brokerage fee. Turns out UPS drove my product to customs and them back to UPS for me at my expense, even though I didn't ask for that. I told them to keep the package.

Needless to say for all of that trouble I managed to get my money back and no pistol lanyard. What a kick in the pants. Needless to say that I have bought a lot of product from the states, by ground and UPS, and have never had this problem before. This is just a heads up in case anyone wants to buy from these guys.

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Yeah... Not that I ever wanted BHI gear in the first place but now I'll NEVER support them. It must be noce to be a big company that can outright ignore the needs of the people that got them to where they are today. Glad to take my 'buying power' elsewhere.

-Saryet, out!-

-It's better to be the Shepherd than the Sheep-

The responses as well as poster's profile are available on Lightfighter.

 

[Blackhorse7]

It's made my mind up.  BHI can get bent.  Unless they can prove to me that the Assclown who made reference to the CF's buying power has been fired outright.

Way to screw yourselves, BHI.  I can't say you will be getting much support from the RCMP either.

 

[Britney Spears]

Well, I hope it usually takes more than an unverified, one sided,  second hand "buddy of mine" account on the internet to make up your mind.

Let's take into account:

- In the rest of Lightfighter, from what I can tell, BHI customer service is usually well thought of.

- Canadian Customs can often be fickle, especially when dealing with items related to *gasp* WEAPONS.  I've heard similar problems occuring with products from other companies too, when crossing the border. I've also heard issues witht he shipping company, UPS. All second hand, to be sure, just like the account above.

- BHI acknowledged their mistake and offered to give him the product free.

- "Give it to you free if you shut up"? That doesn't sound like something any manager with half a brain would say. I wouldn't be suprised if there was some dramatization going on here.

 

[Sf2]

I think 90% of the problem during this transaction was the customers lack of knowledge of the customs/ brokerage fees.

Althought I haven't purchased any weapons related material (this could also be a factor), I have purchase many things from the US and Japan for my car, and have had many, many dealings with customs fees, brokerage fees, duties, taxes etc.....

I

With no further explanation of this miscellaneous fee, I call BS - you have a $20 item, plus US taxes, to say $28, add 10-15 bucks for shipping, plus UPS brokerage of 15 USD - TADA, your order is already at $58 USD.   Now add your customs/duties which will include a 7% GST plus the US exchange rate, BINGO, there's your $100 CDN lanyard.

So where's the Blackhawk $50 fee?   Sorry dude, do your customs research, and dont blame it on blackhawk.    Can't you get a lanyard at supply for free?
PS:  Its probably Blackhawk's policy to disclose item descriptions, so "Lanyard for 9mm Pistol" probably didn't help the cause either.

 

[Matt_Fisher]

Well, I hope it usually takes more than an unverified, one sided,   second hand "buddy of mine" account on the internet to make up your mind.

Let's take into account:

- In the rest of Lightfighter, from what I can tell, BHI customer service is usually well thought of.

- Canadian Customs can often be fickle, especially when dealing with items related to *gasp* WEAPONS.   I've heard similar problems occuring with products from other companies too, when crossing the border. I've also heard issues witht he shipping company, UPS. All second hand, to be sure, just like the account above.

- BHI acknowledged their mistake and offered to give him the product free.

- "Give it to you free if you shut up"? That doesn't sound like something any manager with half a brain would say. I wouldn't be suprised if there was some dramatization going on here.

Valid points, but I just wanted to make those out there aware of the possibility that they may be treated the same.  Additionally, I did provide the contact info for Blackhawk for anyone that wants to enquire what their Canadian sales & shipping policies are.

I'll admit that I'm biased against Blackhawk.  From my experience with Blackhawk, I had two pieces of gear (which I was given) that both didn't perform as advertised; a triple mag pouch that was a pain in the *ss to get mags out of as the lid interfered with extraction and a STRIKE Omega vest that the shoulder pad separated from.  I've also got little respect for a company that will take other people's designs, copy them outright, use generic materials (Nytaneon nylon rather than Invista Cordura, Kifco buckles rather than ITW Nexus, etc.), utilize cheap overseas manufacturing, disguise the fact they build their stuff overseas through a series of flashy pro-patriotic ads, and still sell their gear in the Tier 1 price range.

I would expect that a company doing an international shipment, as I'm sure that BHI does on a regular basis, would have a pretty good understanding of international shipping and customs rates and should inform the buyer of any special charges of shipping internationally.

I think 90% of the problem during this transaction was the customers lack of knowledge of the customs/ brokerage fees.

Althought I haven't purchased any weapons related material (this could also be a factor), I have purchase many things from the US and Japan for my car, and have had many, many dealings with customs fees, brokerage fees, duties, taxes etc.....

I

With no further explanation of this miscellaneous fee, I call BS - you have a $20 item, plus US taxes, to say $28, add 10-15 bucks for shipping, plus UPS brokerage of 15 USD - TADA, your order is already at $58 USD.   Now add your customs/duties which will include a 7% GST plus the US exchange rate, BINGO, there's your $100 CDN lanyard.

So where's the Blackhawk $50 fee?   Sorry dude, do your customs research, and dont blame it on blackhawk.    Can't you get a lanyard at supply for free?
PS:   Its probably Blackhawk's policy to disclose item descriptions, so "Lanyard for 9mm Pistol" probably didn't help the cause either.

Don't quite see how your math works out here:

US online sales don't charge any sales taxes (other than 7% GST that's added by  Canada Customs), so the price would be $20.
Canadian exchange rate comes out to about $24 (exchange rate calculated by www.xe.com)

Blackhawk wouldn't be the ones charging the customs duties for the extra $58 misc. fee.  From Blackhawk's website, have a look at what the checkout order for the pistol lanyard is, and also have a look at what their policy on international shipping is.
https://www.blackhawk.com/checkout.asp?d=&option=checkout
"International Shipping: International customers are responsible for all duties, taxes and additional freight charges."
I just went through the exercise of ordering one of these up to the point of not going through with the final order.  At no point in the shopping checkout did it add anything other than the $7.95 for USPS shipping even when the address indicated an international address.
If there was to be a charge of the $50something, a decent business practice would have been to contact the purchaser prior to shipping/billing to see if that was ok.

It's a free market, so feel free to spend your money where you want/how you want.  Just be aware of what's happened to others when dealing with this company

 

[gun plumber]

The only item I've ever owned made by Black Hawk was their 2L Hydrastorm hydration system.Utter crap.Looked good on the shelf in my kit room,but first day in the woods,it fell apart quicker than my 2000 Ford Focus.

 

[Acorn]

I've doen a bit of dealing with US companies (car parts and other stuff from e-bay and established companies). Most are unaware of the fees charged by courier services for brokerage, and most don't pass that info on to the customer.

Courier companies will charge a brokerage fee which is often totally out of proportion to the item (in my case it was a pair of silicone windshield wipers that cost $20 each, and had a $35 brokerage fee attached by the courier). Canada Post charges $5-$8 (at last count, I think it's going up) for the same service. If you can get the company to ship USPS Ground or air you're golden. If not, and many US companies refuse to use USPS for shipping outside the Lower 48 because of tracking issues, ask for UPS (or equivalent) Air and pay the premium. The Air shipping fee for UPS, and I assume many other couriers, includes the brokerage fee and is usually much less than the "brokerage fee." Confirm that with the chosen courier company first though. I'd hate to be named as a co-defendant if I'm wrong (I do know UPS does it that way - can't vouch for others, I just suspect that is so due to the means by which Air shipments pass customs).

All that being said, the doubling of the base price by Blackhawk, possibly due to higher (undisclosed) postage costs, is a bit on the unethical side.

Acorn

 

[Farmboy]

Buy from a Canadian company    Problem solved.

 

[Infanteer]

I prefer to stick to a gear company that doesn't have controversy on the quality of its work.

 

[Slim]

I buy from a US company called Tactical Ops Gear and have never once had this problem.

 

[MTAB]

BHI kit is the absolute worst!  Bought a brand new rucksack and right out of the box the inner liner tore as I was loading it; and received a vest missing 2 belt loops.  You can count on BHI kit alright.....count on it to fail! General opinion of our folks here.....utter junk.
Eagle Industires makes excellent kit (www.eagleindustries.com) with pricing compareable to BHI; London Bridge Trading Company (www.londonbridgetrading.com) makes excellent kit also however it is a bit pricey

V/R
MTAB

 

[DBA]

Sounds like both the complainant and the company got screwed over by UPS. They advertise to and tell businesses that they handle all the customs stuff while hiding the fact the customer will have to pay a stupidly large brokerage fee to them in addition to the shipping charges paid by the sender in order to receive the item.

Avoid UPS and try and educate companies shipping by them of the large extra fees the customer will end up paying in addition to the shipping charge paid by them.

 

[Scoobie Newbie]

ask to have things sent as gifts and you avoid brokerage fees

 

[STA Gunner]

I don't understand brokerage fees duties, etc.....thought we were all "FREE TRADERS?"

About brokerage fees:  one option UPS can give you is to go to Canada Customs yourself and pick up your item.  The brokerage fee is the fee for having them clear your entire shipment through customs, applying applicable duties, and assessing taxes.  If you don't like UPS brokering your item, there are several brokerage firms that are able to handle it for you.  The main advantage of having a broker do it (mostly for businesses) is that you don't have to go to the nearest customs office and declare your shipment.  It is done for you.  The other advantage I can think of for the moment is that oftentimes, you will be able to have your shipment delivered to your door faster than you clearing it through customs yourself (ie it won't be placed in a bonded warehouse, to be sorted and delivered later).

As for getting shipments sent as gifts, CCRA and Border Services do not accept a business in the states as sending "gifts" to residents in Canada.  It is different from private citizen to private citizen, but as soon as a business is either sending or receiving a shipment, it is a business shipment.

 

[FormerHorseGuard]

UPS and some other courier companies all charge this fee to bring something across the border. I learned the hard way shipping stuff home from the states to canada.

if your going to mail order something from the States to Canada. some helpful hints.
1) see they will ship it is by  mail
2) find a friend in the US to get your package and forward it by mail
3) arrange to pick it up near the border on the US side.

So many people think couriiers are faster, cheaper and what ever but usually  the mail is cheaper and less costs on the other end with duties.

 

[Acorn]

I don't understand brokerage fees duties, etc.....thought we were all "FREE TRADERS?"

Tell that to our lumber industry. There are two issues:

1. Not all products are duty free, therefore Customs has to clear anything imported into Canada, and the reverse is also true.

2. We have a national sales tax (the Goods and Services Tax (GST) affectionately known as the "Gouge and Screw Tax") for which the Gov't, in all it's wisdom, has chosen to offload the administration on to the business selling the product. The end result is that products purchased from US businesses are all subject to the tax when they cross the border. Courier companies charge the brokerage fee because Customs applies the tax to any imported item - no tax paid, the item isn't released. Therefore, the courier has to pay the tax, and pay a broker to administrate the whole transaction. The fact that Canada Post performs the same service for about $8 indicates to me that courier companies are gouging. But what can you do?

Acorn

 

[Fishbone Jones]

3 RCR issued us the little curly cord lanyard on Roto 0. When it was time to leave, they told me to keep it and have a nice day. I don't know why you had to purchase it in the first place, it's in the system. If the RCR gave it out, it must be available to everyone. Heaven knows, THEY wouldn't have allowed a piece of non issue gear, let alone, let us use it or keep it.

 

[Scoobie Newbie]

what are you implying rg. ;D