- Reaction score
- 25
- Points
- 430
Must be an old publication. They are using "mines and booby traps" and we all know the new buzzword is "IED" and variations of. ;D
- Reaction score
- 79
- Points
- 680
Only other ref I can find for breaching uses the EROC package or manual breach by dismounted troops.......
And from the Armoured Regiment in Battle:
And from the Armoured Regiment in Battle:
- Reaction score
- 3,104
- Points
- 1,160
Please don't, that's one of my personal bugaboos, and it's too early in the new year for me to start foaming at the mouth in here.George Wallace said:
On a deliberate breaching op, the plow leads and turns over the mines. The roller then "proves" the lane, and also deals with any mines that the plow turns over that fall back in the lane, unlikely but possible.
NL_engineer
Army.ca Veteran
- Reaction score
- 0
- Points
- 410
NFLD Sapper said:
The EROC package IMO is not designed for a conventional mine field; tho I can think of ways it can be used to breach one.
TangoTwoBravo
Army.ca Veteran
- Reaction score
- 2,954
- Points
- 1,110
When I was a young Troop Leader on Leopards we did a fair number of breaches in a conventional setting (exercise). I was the Breach Troop commander for several evolutions which was a challenging but fun affair. This little force could have a beefed up tank troop, a good chunk of an Engineer Field Troop plus the AEV/AVLBs that the SSM brought up.
If it was a minefield without an anti-tank ditch it was pretty simple. The Troop conducting the breach would pick up a second plough tank (usually from the other Troop conducting the Assault). Each plough would then attempt a lane at least 200 m from each other. I would park in the middle and the other two tanks would suppress. The Sapper Troop would send a section to each lane to mark the entrance with a funnel and then the lane itself. Once a plough tank was at 75% I would inform the OC and he would launch the combat team through one or both lanes. We wouldn't have the rollers mounted (only two in the Sqn) unless it was a deliberate attack. Sometimes the OC had two Troops each attempt a lane, but it could lead to congestion near the minefield.
If the minefield had a ditch in the middle it got more complicated. The two ploughs would still each attempt a lane, but the AEV and AVLB would each be assigned a lane. The plough tank would have to make "parking spots" off the lane at the ditch to allow the AEV/AVLB to come up, pass the plough tank (and maybe roller tank) and field section and drop a facine or place a bridge. There was all sorts of backing-up going on in the lane which is always painful. We were usually hatches down for this, so command and control for me as a Breach commander was always a treat.
If we had the rollers the Sqn would mount two for a deliberate attack and they would both go to the Breach Troop and the Troop with the breach task would swap out tanks to get two ploughs, two rollers and the Troop Leader. The ploughs would lead, each with a roller tank behind. Otherwise it was the same as a breach without rollers. I had this task for my last attack as a Troop Leader and it was a fun way to close out. As an aside, from my training with the US Army they did things almost the same except that there were no rollers and they would fire a MCLIC first (a US style Giant Viper).
An argument I often had was issue of the sappers marking the lane itself. They were usually on foot behind their M113 trying to place stakes in the ground. We would all be backed up behind them, and they were terribly vulnerable (and slow). I figured they could mark the entrance (very important) and then zip through and mark the exit. The counter-argument was that the sappers on foot behind their carrier could deal with any mines that were too close to the lane (or had been missed). I guess I was trying to trade safety for speed, but I suppose that having a vehicle hit a mine in the lane would really slow things down too.
Anyhoo.
If it was a minefield without an anti-tank ditch it was pretty simple. The Troop conducting the breach would pick up a second plough tank (usually from the other Troop conducting the Assault). Each plough would then attempt a lane at least 200 m from each other. I would park in the middle and the other two tanks would suppress. The Sapper Troop would send a section to each lane to mark the entrance with a funnel and then the lane itself. Once a plough tank was at 75% I would inform the OC and he would launch the combat team through one or both lanes. We wouldn't have the rollers mounted (only two in the Sqn) unless it was a deliberate attack. Sometimes the OC had two Troops each attempt a lane, but it could lead to congestion near the minefield.
If the minefield had a ditch in the middle it got more complicated. The two ploughs would still each attempt a lane, but the AEV and AVLB would each be assigned a lane. The plough tank would have to make "parking spots" off the lane at the ditch to allow the AEV/AVLB to come up, pass the plough tank (and maybe roller tank) and field section and drop a facine or place a bridge. There was all sorts of backing-up going on in the lane which is always painful. We were usually hatches down for this, so command and control for me as a Breach commander was always a treat.
If we had the rollers the Sqn would mount two for a deliberate attack and they would both go to the Breach Troop and the Troop with the breach task would swap out tanks to get two ploughs, two rollers and the Troop Leader. The ploughs would lead, each with a roller tank behind. Otherwise it was the same as a breach without rollers. I had this task for my last attack as a Troop Leader and it was a fun way to close out. As an aside, from my training with the US Army they did things almost the same except that there were no rollers and they would fire a MCLIC first (a US style Giant Viper).
An argument I often had was issue of the sappers marking the lane itself. They were usually on foot behind their M113 trying to place stakes in the ground. We would all be backed up behind them, and they were terribly vulnerable (and slow). I figured they could mark the entrance (very important) and then zip through and mark the exit. The counter-argument was that the sappers on foot behind their carrier could deal with any mines that were too close to the lane (or had been missed). I guess I was trying to trade safety for speed, but I suppose that having a vehicle hit a mine in the lane would really slow things down too.
Anyhoo.
- Reaction score
- 3,104
- Points
- 1,160
The real fun for us in the AET was in the pre-attack mud map chat. We were all Cpls, maybe a MCpl or two, so our word counted for crap even though we'd done it a couple thousand times. It was really the young field troop commanders show, and until we hit the field, he may have seen it done in a CTC video, or maybe actually done a mech breach once before. We would be asked for input at the end, and as an AVLB guy I would always ask for the same two things: Try to hit the ditch with the plow scar as close to 90 degrees as possible, and start plowing the "parking spots" as far back as possible. when those two things were done, it went beautifully, despite my objections to using a 22m bridge for a 2m gap. If not, my lane was more often than not unuseable. Another peeve was getting guys to avoid jumping on the throttle before being off the bridge.
- Reaction score
- 1
- Points
- 410
You have that right Kat.
Many young Officer's come in all full of piss and vinger but think wth in their box from what they have been taught at RMC,CSME etc. and don't take advice from their Snr.NCO's or the lower rank's who have T.I. and who have
the T- Shirt's and have worn our many T- Shirts out.
It is an age old story ;D
Nick
Many young Officer's come in all full of piss and vinger but think wth in their box from what they have been taught at RMC,CSME etc. and don't take advice from their Snr.NCO's or the lower rank's who have T.I. and who have
the T- Shirt's and have worn our many T- Shirts out.
It is an age old story ;D
Nick
- Reaction score
- 79
- Points
- 680
Instead of making a new thread gonna add to this one........
Versatile Badger clears mines, makes routes
A Badger from 1 CER in Edmonton is used to fill dirt into protective walls or Hesco Bastions while helping to develop a compound for Afghan National Army and Canadian soldiers to use.
Sunday, January 31, 2010
Kandahar Airfield, Afghanistan — The Badger is one of the lead elements in the combat team and is proving to be a key asset in theatre today. Armoured combat engineers, who have one of the most important roles in Afghanistan, are trained to operate this armoured engineer vehicle (AEV).
The Badger is built on the chassis of the Leopard I main battle tank and is equipped with a twin, super-charged, 840-horsepower engine. Its many capabilities include a large dozer blade, a telescopic excavator arm, a capstan winch capable of a constant pull of 35 tonnes and a welding system. This heavily armoured engineer tank can be driven cross-country, even at night, using light-amplification optics.
The large dozer blade, used to breach safe lanes for other combat vehicles, and telescopic excavator arm of the Badger make this AEV an essential piece of equipment in Afghanistan.
In the field
The Canadian Forces use the Badger in every mechanized operation it conducts in Afghanistan. The Badger follows a tank equipped with a mine roller and uses its dozer blade to breach a safe lane for other combat vehicles. Mines and improvised explosive devices (IEDs) are a threat to all coalition vehicles in Afghanistan, and the Badger helps to reduce this threat by bulldozing combat roads.
Another important task of the Badger in Afghanistan is to create roads through otherwise impassable terrain. One particular terrain feature that proves difficult for wheeled vehicles is the wadi, a small river-like channel used by the locals to irrigate their crops. Wadis can be quite deep and filled with water.
A Badger “breaches” a wadi by placing a fascine to create a road. The fascine is a 2.5-tonne piece of equipment made of reinforced piping linked together with chains. The Badger operator drops the fascine into the wadi and pushes dirt on top of it to provide traction for wheeled vehicles while water passes through the fascine underneath.
The large dozer blade, used to breach safe lanes for other combat vehicles, and telescopic excavator arm of the Badger make this AEV an essential piece of equipment in Afghanistan.
The Badger is also used to scrape leaguers, a defensive position the combat team uses on operations. In the leaguer, the Badger digs hollows in the ground to provide some protection from enemy fire for sleeping troops and combat vehicles, such as the LAV III.
The Badger crew consists of an operator and a crew commander. The operator’s job is to drive and operate the hydraulic controls. The crew commander commands the vehicle, monitors the radios and handles the C6 machine gun.
The Badger works hard in Afghanistan, and after each operation, the vehicle usually requires at least 24 hours of maintenance before it can be considered fully operational again. The maintenance tasks include inspecting the track, applying the appropriate torque to road wheels and shock absorbers, and cleaning air and fuel filters.
Article by Cpl Jason Lafrenière and Spr James Percy, 11 Field Squadron
Photos by Cpl Jonathan Barrette, JTF-AFG, MCpl Robert Bottrill, Canadian Forces Combat Camera; and 11 Field Squadron
Versatile Badger clears mines, makes routes
A Badger from 1 CER in Edmonton is used to fill dirt into protective walls or Hesco Bastions while helping to develop a compound for Afghan National Army and Canadian soldiers to use.
Sunday, January 31, 2010
Kandahar Airfield, Afghanistan — The Badger is one of the lead elements in the combat team and is proving to be a key asset in theatre today. Armoured combat engineers, who have one of the most important roles in Afghanistan, are trained to operate this armoured engineer vehicle (AEV).
The Badger is built on the chassis of the Leopard I main battle tank and is equipped with a twin, super-charged, 840-horsepower engine. Its many capabilities include a large dozer blade, a telescopic excavator arm, a capstan winch capable of a constant pull of 35 tonnes and a welding system. This heavily armoured engineer tank can be driven cross-country, even at night, using light-amplification optics.
The large dozer blade, used to breach safe lanes for other combat vehicles, and telescopic excavator arm of the Badger make this AEV an essential piece of equipment in Afghanistan.
In the field
The Canadian Forces use the Badger in every mechanized operation it conducts in Afghanistan. The Badger follows a tank equipped with a mine roller and uses its dozer blade to breach a safe lane for other combat vehicles. Mines and improvised explosive devices (IEDs) are a threat to all coalition vehicles in Afghanistan, and the Badger helps to reduce this threat by bulldozing combat roads.
Another important task of the Badger in Afghanistan is to create roads through otherwise impassable terrain. One particular terrain feature that proves difficult for wheeled vehicles is the wadi, a small river-like channel used by the locals to irrigate their crops. Wadis can be quite deep and filled with water.
A Badger “breaches” a wadi by placing a fascine to create a road. The fascine is a 2.5-tonne piece of equipment made of reinforced piping linked together with chains. The Badger operator drops the fascine into the wadi and pushes dirt on top of it to provide traction for wheeled vehicles while water passes through the fascine underneath.
The large dozer blade, used to breach safe lanes for other combat vehicles, and telescopic excavator arm of the Badger make this AEV an essential piece of equipment in Afghanistan.
The Badger is also used to scrape leaguers, a defensive position the combat team uses on operations. In the leaguer, the Badger digs hollows in the ground to provide some protection from enemy fire for sleeping troops and combat vehicles, such as the LAV III.
The Badger crew consists of an operator and a crew commander. The operator’s job is to drive and operate the hydraulic controls. The crew commander commands the vehicle, monitors the radios and handles the C6 machine gun.
The Badger works hard in Afghanistan, and after each operation, the vehicle usually requires at least 24 hours of maintenance before it can be considered fully operational again. The maintenance tasks include inspecting the track, applying the appropriate torque to road wheels and shock absorbers, and cleaning air and fuel filters.
Article by Cpl Jason Lafrenière and Spr James Percy, 11 Field Squadron
Photos by Cpl Jonathan Barrette, JTF-AFG, MCpl Robert Bottrill, Canadian Forces Combat Camera; and 11 Field Squadron
- Reaction score
- 79
- Points
- 680
PanaEng said:
Think it was RV 92 or so .......
- Reaction score
- 0
- Points
- 210
yeah, 92 sounds right - I was having my lobotomy done around that time ;D
The Viper and this new variant are definitely impressive - major chub just thinking about it :camo:
however, they are expensive and their clearing reliability varies with the terrain: depending on the ground you could end up with many skip zones where the shock-wave ..... and does not detonate some of the mines. This could happen if ...
(am sure you can search for these details, but I am not going to post them here).
But if you want to clear a fast lane on the appropriate terrain, nothing beats the G. Viper or this Python.
cheers,
Frank
The Viper and this new variant are definitely impressive - major chub just thinking about it :camo:
however, they are expensive and their clearing reliability varies with the terrain: depending on the ground you could end up with many skip zones where the shock-wave ..... and does not detonate some of the mines. This could happen if ...
(am sure you can search for these details, but I am not going to post them here).
But if you want to clear a fast lane on the appropriate terrain, nothing beats the G. Viper or this Python.
cheers,
Frank
- Reaction score
- 79
- Points
- 680
PanaEng said:
That's why Heavy Troop or is it Armoured Troop is keeping the LEO 1's with plows and rollers.... much better at breaching safe lanes and the such.....
LEO 2's don't have the mounts for the plows and rollers........
Mind you this is doctrine not sure if it has made it to the real world yet.....
Or so I have heard from the head shed at my unit.......
- Reaction score
- 3,104
- Points
- 1,160
Are you saying the tankers are going to hand over their plow and roller tanks to the AETs? It's hard enough now to have enough leo qualified operators in the regiment.
- Reaction score
- 79
- Points
- 680
Seems thats what the head shed is saying Kat..... now I will believe it when I see it......
- Reaction score
- 35
- Points
- 560
I seem to recall that the follow up of launching a Giant Viper was the British Engineer vehicle that towed the trailer carrying the Viper lowered it's 'dozer blade and trundled down the smoking lane the Giant Viper just blasted to deal with UXO's and devices the Viper missed.
That vehicle was rather small and made of Aluminum, so having a Leopard based engineer vehicle tow the Giant Viper/Python trailer and then use the 'dozer blade to finish the job would make lots of sense to me.
That vehicle was rather small and made of Aluminum, so having a Leopard based engineer vehicle tow the Giant Viper/Python trailer and then use the 'dozer blade to finish the job would make lots of sense to me.
McG
Army.ca Legend
- Reaction score
- 2,626
- Points
- 1,160
The Python has also been around for a while. I recall hearing of it in the '90s, so I wonder what has lead to it being described as "new" in this article.PanaEng said:
I think someone in your unit is doing some dreaming. While an experiment to mount rollers on the Leo 2 showed some promise, the tank is not capable of mounting the ploughs. Despite that, we will still divest ourselves of the Leopard 1. That decision was made at high levels long back & I continue to hear it re-emphasised.NFLD Sapper said:
- Reaction score
- 79
- Points
- 680
MCG said:
That's what I thought too MCG and like I said before, I will believe it when I see it.....
