Britain's ten worst military aircraft

[dapaterson]

Interesting article.

http://hushkit.net/2016/03/02/the-ten-worst-british-military-aircraft/

 

[jollyjacktar]

Interesting article.

http://hushkit.net/2016/03/02/the-ten-worst-british-military-aircraft/

Wow seems somewhat inappropriately strong enough to describe these flops.  Flying LSWVs to be sure.

 

[Kirkhill]

Interesting article.

http://hushkit.net/2016/03/02/the-ten-worst-british-military-aircraft/

Poor old Blackburn gets a heck of bashing! How about the Bolton-Paul Defiant or the Fairey Battle?

Of course, as a patriotic Brit I could argue that this is price of freedom!  Freedom of thought and freedom of expression!  Not bound by rules.

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[daftandbarmy]

Poor old Blackburn gets a heck of bashing! How about the Bolton-Paul Defiant or the Fairey Battle?

Of course, as a patriotic Brit I could argue that this is price of freedom!  Freedom of thought and freedom of expression!  Not bound by rules.

>

The dad of  a guy I know was a turret gunner in the Fairy Battle during the Battle for France in 1940. He said that they shot down lots of ME 109s who though they were a Hurricane, with no rearward firing guns.

 

[jollyjacktar]

The dad of  a guy I know was a turret gunner in the Fairy Battle during the Battle for France in 1940. He said that they shot down lots of ME 109s who though they were a Hurricane, with no rearward firing guns.

I bet that realizaton came as a very rude shock to the SOB.

 

[daftandbarmy]

I bet that realizaton came as a very rude shock to the SOB.

The guy had over 100 kills before he was shot down in a B25 over North Africa. I was amazed. They put all the glory on the pilots for their tallies but the gunners on some of these bombers had way more shoot downs apparently.

 

[Kirkhill]

The dad of  a guy I know was a turret gunner in the Fairy Battle during the Battle for France in 1940. He said that they shot down lots of ME 109s who though they were a Hurricane, with no rearward firing guns.

I'm impressed.  All I had heard about the Battle was uncomplimentary.

 

[Danjanou]

So am I I just checked it's armaments was two .303 MGs, one in the starboard wing and a single manned by the observer firing to the rear of the cockpit.

 

[Old Sweat]

The dad of  a guy I know was a turret gunner in the Fairy Battle during the Battle for France in 1940. He said that they shot down lots of ME 109s who though they were a Hurricane, with no rearward firing guns.

I heard this sort of thing re the Bolton-Paul Defiant which had a four gun turret firing to the rear, but no forward firing armament.

http://www.battleofbritain1940.net/0009.html

 

[Blackadder1916]

The dad of  a guy I know was a turret gunner in the Fairy Battle during the Battle for France in 1940. He said that they shot down lots of ME 109s who though they were a Hurricane, with no rearward firing guns.

While not wishing to disparage the recollections of a gentleman who served in a dangerous role during the war, from what I found (done quickly and definitely not all encompassing) the Fairey Battle accounted for only one German a/c during aerial combat over France.  It was actually the first enemy plane (a Bf 109) downed by the RAF.

http://www.pilotfriend.com/photo_albums/timeline/ww2/Fairey%20Battle.htm

By the outbreak of World War II more than 1,000 Battles had been delivered, and aircraft of No. 226 Squadron were the first to be sent to France as part of the Advanced Air Striking Force. It was here that the Battle's inability to defend itself against enemy fighters became obvious. On armed daylight reconnaissance missions the type occasionally tangled with Bf 109s, and although one of the latter was destroyed by a Battle's rear gunner in September 1940, the light bombers invariably suffered heavy casualties.

http://www.epibreren.com/ww2/raf/88_squadron.html

On the outbreak of war No. 88 Squadron went to France as part of the Advanced Air Striking Force, flying Fairey Battles. On 20th September 1939, during a reconnaissance patrol over the enemy's front lines, one of its Battles scored Britain's first air combat 'kill' of World War 2 when it shot down a Bf.109. (The person actually responsible for this 'kill' was Sergeant F Letchford, an air observer; he was flying in an aircraft piloted by Flying Officer LH Baker.)

If he flew in a Battle during that campaign, he is lucky to have survived.

 

[Cloud Cover]

Interesting about the first prototype of the Defiant and the proposed variant developed later in the war- the rear facing turret was removed and...

OVERVIEW & ORIGINS
The original Defiant prototype - K8310 - was built without its signature power-operated turret. It was was the second prototype that was to have the turret. K8310, was later retro-fitted with the turret. In the late of 1940, the turret was again removed and faired over to look like new again. It looked a bit like a sleeker Hurricane. It was set up as a demonstrator for a new fighter which would be easy to build using Defiant components as a contemporary to the Spitfire and Hurricane fighters. It was then designated P.94.

The selling point for this new fighter was its fixed, forward-firing armament selections. It could be fitted with either twelve .303 Brownings in the wings (!!!!!)or four 20mm Hispanos. An innovative feature it possessed was the capability to depress the guns at a 17 degree angle for ground attack work.

Unfortunately, since the RAF already had sufficient quantities of Spitfires and Hurricanes, and about to receive the new Hawker Typhoon interceptor, no need was seen for a new fighter. Eventually, P.94 was scrapped. It proved to be very fast and very agile, with a top speed of 360 mph (579 km/h) at 21,700 feet and was nearly as agile as the venerable Spitfire, although had a slightly wider turning circle and was 20 mph slower that the F Mk II variety.

 

[daftandbarmy]

I'm impressed.  All I had heard about the Battle was uncomplimentary.

My bad... it was indeed a BP Defiant that this guy spent his time in over France from what I recall. An interesting article FYI:

In mid-march 1940, No. 264 Squadron – still being the sole unit equipped with the new aircraft – was declared operational. After German assault on France and the Low Countries, they were thrown into battle directly – in offensive capability, first in air battle over Holland, then over Dunkirk.

There, on 29 May, the Defiant made history. In an incredible two afternoon patrols over Dunkirk, No. 264 Squadron achieved a score of thirty-seven (!) German aircraft destroyed, plus three probables. It was the best score that any RAF squadron ever had; it left everyone in awe, including the participating aircrew. Nicholas Cooke, who himself claimed eight victories that day, told one reporter “It was like knocking apples off a tree!”.

Even considering an inevitable massive overclaiming which was inherent of these early engagements, this was a tremendous success for the Defiant. At one moment during the evening patrol, British fighters caught a formation of Ju 87s at the vulnerable moment when they were pulling out of their dives after attacking the beaches. The Defiants joined their formation and then massacred the Stukas, pouring accurate fire into one after another, and sending them crashing into the sea. They also successfully attacked twin-engined He 111s and Ju 88s, overtaking the bombers and shooting from close range directly into their glass cabins.

During the day there were also engagements with Bf 110s and Bf 109s, but both German fighter types were successfully waved off, and some of them hit by the Defiants’ defensive fire.

http://spitfiresite.com/2010/07/battle-of-britain-1940-boulton-paul-defiant.html

 

[Colin Parkinson]

As for postwar Britain, people don’t realize just how broke it was, you could only buy steel if 70% of your product was exported, the fact that the Japanese left huge stockpiles of Tin and Rubber at the docks in Malaysia for the Brits to grab helped a great deal in keeping the UK afloat. In those years just after the war. The fact they could afford to build new designs is surprising in itself.

 

[a_majoor]

Sadly, the British have this love for baroque engineering, which tends to favour fanciful designs over the fairly straight forward and easy to produce and maintain. This can be seen in all kinds of fields (look at the Mars automatic pistol or the Chieftain tank engine, for example), and while it can occasionally pull out pretty amazing stuff, generally the end product tends to be pretty fiddly, expensive, delicate, impractical or all of the above.

Even when they come up with world beating ideas, the sort of management and manufacturing culture tends to work against them. The Napier Sabre engine was potentially world beating, with a far higher power output and power to weight ratio than virtually any contemporary engine (the first batches in 1938 already produced 2,200hp out of the box), but Napier continued to fiddle with the engine rather than get into mass production, so many early engines were unreliable. This continued until English Electric purchased Napier and reorganized the production in 1942. The Rolls Royce Merlin wasn't so fiddly, but when the Americans bought the production licence, Packard made many modifications so the engine could be assembled faster and more cheaply.

Anyone who has experienced British cars into the early 1980's can also attest to the generally bizarre designs and poor quality control. Perhaps the only way to really fix the problem is having German and Japanese companies buy British companies and redesign their products for actual production.