Britain's Territorial Army infiltrated by Al-Qaeda

[joaquim]

From the Sunday Times (link below), this surprising revelation:

Five Al-Qaeda suspects are believed to have trained as part-time soldiers with the TA. At least one is now in custody.
The Ministry of Defence (MoD) has confirmed that other terror suspects have attempted to join the TA, but says they were rejected after undergoing security checks.
(...)
Patrick Mercer, the Tory homeland security spokesman and a former army officer, said Al-Qaeda terrorists could use TA passes to penetrate security at key MoD establishments such as the permanent joint headquarters at Northwood in Greater London.
â Å“This could have very serious security implications. Clearly in the war against terror you need to know who your friends are. The last thing we want is the enemy masquerading as our own people,â ? Mercer said.

The war on terror is a strange new form of war, indeed.
A concerned civilian.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2087-1313759,00.html

 

[Scoobie Newbie]

I would wager that they are in or have trained in many western armies.

 

[marshall sl]

Anyone remember the Squamish 5?  Self proclaimed terrorists in the late 70s/early 80s. Blew up a Litton(sp) systems plant in Ontario, were arrested Near Squamish BC(hence the nickname given by the media) The leader of the group was a member of The Seaforth Highlanders. Dananjou can back me up on that.
There was CBC movie about them. 

Who knows how many others are there!

 

[GerryCan]

I would wager that they are in or have trained in many western armies.

I would wager that they are in and training here now

 

[JasonH]

^ Aye 

 

[Danjanou]

Anyone remember the Squamish 5?    Self proclaimed terrorists in the late 70s/early 80s. Blew up a Litton(sp) systems plant in Ontario, were arrested Near Squamish BC(hence the nickname given by the media) The leader of the group was a member of The Seaforth Highlanders. Dananjou can back me up on that.
There was CBC movie about them.  

Who knows how many others are there!

Yup my ole fireteam buddy Brent Taylor. I went through GMT R&B and TQ1(QL3) Inf with him. Also BWW and some training across the border in Ft Lewis (9th inf Div and 2/75th Inf), where he learned how to set up live fire jungle lanes like the ones they ran near Squamish at their secret training camp. He was in a little over a year total before we tossed him out. A bit embarrasing for the unit when it broke IIRC. Quiet type, used to come across as a bit of a plug, however I now think that might have been a bit of an act so he could play the grey man.

Nice to think that security checks these days would catch smething like that, but when he enrolled he had no criminal record, and was probably smart enough not to declare his political beliefs.

If anyone is interested one of the group (and Taylors girlfriend) wrote a book on their "exploits" I reviewed it here on the site in military authors. There was also a made for TV movie, which fortunatley played down the military connection.  :-[

 

[735_winnipeg]

if you think about it.  where else could some of the terrorists have learned to trained others.

 

[the 48th regulator]

if you think about it. where else could some of the terrorists have learned to trained others.

here here to that, not really that hard to get in if you have kept your nose clean.

tess

 

[Danjanou]

Not hard to imagine Tess especially in a diverse city like Toronto where the units reflect the population as a whole. Easy to slip in a dedicated person either to get training or remain there as a sleeper for something worse should the need arise.  Really no way of finding out either, and we can't really exclude anyone fro ethnic or religious reasons either. Not practical and not realistic, can you say Timmothy McVeigh, or Lee Harvey Oswald. It would also possible to play on the mixed sympathies loyalties of some young trooper.

Interesting to note that the Brits have had this happen before. In 1799 the 5th Dragoons were â Å“disbandedâ ? and remained that way until 1856 when they returned to the rolls. It seems that the regiment, which was Irish and based in Ireland at the time accidentally recruited a large number of young men who seemed almost too eager to join up. They were all Fenians.

A look at the Royal Nfld Regiment will note that in the late 18th century, early 19th century it was briefly disbanded on more than one occasion. While part of that can be explained by periods of peace breaking out between an almost century of warfare, another reason is some of those recruited and their political beliefs. Well that's what you get when your recruiting catchment area started off a penal colony for Irish malcontents.

 

[Gunnerlove]

A great number of those "Irish malcontents" were actually Scots who were shipped to the Emerald Isle to deny them a land bridge to England then when they became a problem in Ireland they were sent off to the new world. We then went back to raising hell and killing just like Scots have done since before recorded history began.

 

[pbi]

I can think of several examples over the years in which people with dangerous intentions have infiltrated the Reserves and Regular Army. On my  Res JNCO course in 1974, an individual attended it (he was caught stealing manuals...) who later turned out to be quite high up in the Western Guard, a neo-fascist organization with racist overtones. I knew an individual in 3PPCLI in the mid 1980's who was involved with organized crime and who used some of his skills learned in the Airborne and in Recce Pl to stage a crime. There have been several major weapons thefts over the years (Brantford Armoury, Petawawa, Timmins Armoury (one fatality), Shilo, Work Point Barracks, etc..) and in several cases IIRC these were believed to be inside jobs by soldiers with criminal (if not terrorist) connections.

Until very recently, I don;t think we took security very seriously. As well, the security screening was so badly backed up that detailed checks for each applicant were almost impossible. As a result, unless you had a recent criminal record, you could probably slip in. Cheers.

 

[Scoobie Newbie]

Please PM

 

[Hanna144]

More recently, a few years ago the SQ picked up some guys heading up to the Quebec City Summit of the Americas protests with a lot of pyro, webbing, etc- turned out a few of them were in a Sherbrooke unit.   There were also reports a few months back of a "Quebec Militia" - I forget exactly what they called themselves - some ultra separtist group - doing "military" training north of Montreal - some of whom I think were ex-reservists.  

 

[pbi]

This is why it can be illegal for civilians to engage in  "drill and training". I guess we don't enforce this provision very much. Cheers.

Unlawful Drilling (CCC)
Orders by Governor in Council
70. (1) The Governor in Council may, by proclamation, make orders

(a) to prohibit assemblies, without lawful authority, of persons for the purpose

(i) of training or drilling themselves,

(ii) of being trained or drilled to the use of arms, or

(iii) of practising military exercises; or

(b) to prohibit persons when assembled for any purpose from training or drilling themselves or from being trained or drilled.

General or special order
(2) An order that is made under subsection (1) may be general or may be made applicable to particular places, districts or assemblies to be specified in the order.

Punishment
(3) Every one who contravenes an order made under this section is guilty of an indictable offence and liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding five years.

R.S., 1985, c. C-46, s. 70; 1992, c. 1, s. 60(F).

 

[Gunnerlove]

Good thing people don't steal manuals now. They just download them off the AEL.

 

[Acorn]

I knew an individual in 3PPCLI in the mid 1980's who was involved with organized crime and who used some of his skills learned in the Airborne and in Recce Pl to stage a crime.

Guys called him "resto" 'cause he (and da family) owned a restaurant in Victoria. He was very much one of "da boys." IIRC he broke out of prison and committed a murder (or vice-versa). Not sure where he is now. IIRC he was a Sgt in Recce Pl.

Acorn

 

[pbi]

Guys called him "resto" 'cause he (and da family) owned a restaurant in Victoria. He was very much one of "da boys." IIRC he broke out of prison and committed a murder (or vice-versa). Not sure where he is now. IIRC he was a Sgt in Recce Pl.

Acorn

Actually, that term was a corruption of part of his name. He got his criminal start in Montreal, IIRC. Cheers.

 

[Acorn]

Not his surname (starts with a "P" if we're talking about the same guy). In any case, your point was made - the CF or any other nation's military, is vulnerable to infilatration by undesireable elements.

Acorn

 

[pbi]

Right you are, on both counts. Cheers.

 

[Infanteer]

With over 80,000 people (reg and reserve), there are bound to be a few bad apples - the law of probability demands so.   You just hope that the far right of the bell curve happens to be "harmless" morons (like CO's of a certain unit caught with their hands in the cookie jar) rather then smart and dangerous men who use their skills to commit acts of mass murder (McVeigh).

However, these are isolated incidents; things could be worse.   We don't have wholesale units playing to their own tune (Russian Revolution) or divisive factions within units (race tensions in Vietnam and post-Vietnam US Army).