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British Military Current Events

Kirkhill said:
So the leadership is following the followers.

If the people are not perceiving a threat, are the leaders perceiving a threat? When the military leadership discusses threat levels with the civilian leadership, what type of reception do they get?

The question is not rhetorical.

Based on the "Foreign Interference" responses and "Convening" I doubt if I will be pleasantly surprised.
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If the leadership were to sit down and tell the truth about foreign influence, potential conflict, experiences with China etc. they might not find the population so opposed to re-building the forces. There was no shortage of volunteers for WW1 and 2 even though we were definitely not a military country at the time and I believe the public reaction would be the same if they actually knew the truth. But as stated elsewhere on this site, trust in the MSM, in politicians is at an all-time low so even if they start to yell pan pan nobody will pay them any mind instead they will look for ulterior motives or just call it a lie.
 
FJAG said:
That's the way that it is but the fallacy in that is that it presupposes that the purpose of government leadership is to be re-elected rather than leading the nation and taking necessary action in the public's best interest.

I frequently wonder whether our system of democracy is truly viable and superior to some of the other choices. To quote Starship Troopers - "Service guarantees citizenship."

🍻
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The only problem with the alternative is that sooner or later, if you are not leading the direction the crowd wishes to follow, then you are likely to find yourself treading a lonely path. If you are lucky.

If you are unlucky you might consider it necessary to start checking your cot for hand grenades.

There is no use giving an order if it isn't going to be obeyed.
 
dapaterson said:
Given the size that the RCN should be, both Halifax and Esquimalt are far too small and should be replaced...
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And yet during WW2 and for much of the 50s and 60s they supported a navy many magnitudes larger than what is there now.

🚢
 
FJAG said:
And yet during WW2 and for much of the 50s and 60s they supported a navy many magnitudes larger than what is there now.

🚢
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And both cities and both waterfronts have materially changed in the intervening three quarters of a century.

Don't hold to "this is how it was 75 years ago".
 
YZT580 said:
maybe Valcartier but the Islanders would cheer. Victoria seems to hate the navy. Just think of all the house boats they could tie up there if it wasn't for all those dirty noisy grey things
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Au contraire...

The RCN on the West Coast is invisible, even though thousands of DND folks work daily within a 30 minute walk from downtown.

Another triumph of CAF publicity efforts I assume, which may reflect somewhat on recruiting and retention ;)
 
dapaterson said:
Given the size that the RCN should be, both Halifax and Esquimalt are far too small and should be replaced...
Click to expand...


HM Halifax Dockyard can easily accommodate all 15 CSC's, two AOR's, six to eight submarines, an aircraft carrier the size of the RN QE's class (at the Dartmouth aircraft carrier jetty - of all places -nobody ever thinks of this one and yes, it is currently in disrepair) and a gaggle of smaller supporting vessels.

Esquimalt can handle easily about twice what is currently based there, including possibly a carrier also (would probably require that we ask the shipyard across the bay for some jetty space).

So, no, even if we built up to the size of Navy we should have, we have enough room for the fleet with Halifax and Esquimalt.

What would need new room would be training facilities because supporting such a fleet would use up all of the available room on base for that sole purpose. A new place, like the old Cornwallis or such, where to build what would in effect be a large community college campus, would be required to furnish such fleet with the trained personnel it would need.
 
Oldgateboatdriver said:
HM Halifax Dockyard can easily accommodate all 15 CSC's, two AOR's, six to eight submarines, an aircraft carrier the size of the RN QE's class (at the Dartmouth aircraft carrier jetty - of all places -nobody ever thinks of this one and yes, it is currently in disrepair) and a gaggle of smaller supporting vessels.

Esquimalt can handle easily about twice what is currently based there, including possibly a carrier also (would probably require that we ask the shipyard across the bay for some jetty space).

So, no, even if we built up to the size of Navy we should have, we have enough room for the fleet with Halifax and Esquimalt.

What would need new room would be training facilities because supporting such a fleet would use up all of the available room on base for that sole purpose. A new place, like the old Cornwallis or such, where to build what would in effect be a large community college campus, would be required to furnish such fleet with the trained personnel it would need.
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If the balloon ever went up I could see the Feds taking over the two NSCC campuses in Dartmouth especially as the Province is adding onsite accommodation blocks. Instant schools and close to the end user
 
Oldgateboatdriver said:
HM Halifax Dockyard can easily accommodate all 15 CSC's, two AOR's, six to eight submarines, an aircraft carrier the size of the RN QE's class (at the Dartmouth aircraft carrier jetty - of all places -nobody ever thinks of this one and yes, it is currently in disrepair) and a gaggle of smaller supporting vessels.

Esquimalt can handle easily about twice what is currently based there, including possibly a carrier also (would probably require that we ask the shipyard across the bay for some jetty space).

So, no, even if we built up to the size of Navy we should have, we have enough room for the fleet with Halifax and Esquimalt.

What would need new room would be training facilities because supporting such a fleet would use up all of the available room on base for that sole purpose. A new place, like the old Cornwallis or such, where to build what would in effect be a large community college campus, would be required to furnish such fleet with the trained personnel it would need.
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CFB Esquimalt infrastructure seems better known for its heritage status, and resemblance to a gigantic outdoor museum, than an installation that can become a modern naval war fighter generator though, sadly, viz:

CFB Esquimalt​

CFB Esquimalt contains several recognized and classified federal heritage buildings on the Register of the Government of Canada Heritage Buildings.[10]
  • Colwood Site
    • Guard House Building 38 Recognized – 2002[11]
    • Belmont Road Main Gatehouse BEL 13 Recognized – 2000[12]
    • Cow Barn / Dairy RR6 Recognized – 2000[13]
    • Gatehouse Lodge RR8 Recognized – 2000[14]
    • Grant Block, Building 24 Recognized – 1990[15]
    • Gymnasium RR22 Recognized – 2000[16]
    • Hatley Castle Classified – 1986[17]
    • Nixon Block RR24A Recognized – 2000[18]
    • Stable / Garage RR4 Recognized – 2000[19]
    • Swimming Pool RR22A Recognized – 2000[20]
  • Dockyard
    • Admiral's Residence, former Naval Storekeeper's Residence, Building D101 Classified – 1991[21]
    • Aldergrove Building DY 199 Recognized – 2001[22]
    • Bickford Tower, Building D118 Recognized – 1988[23]
    • Clothing / Receiving Stores, Building D211 Recognized – 1991[24]
    • Cordage / Furniture Stores, Building D80 Recognized – 1991[25]
    • Dry Dock Pumphouse, Building D175 Recognized – 1991[26]
    • Electrical Shop Building DY 141 Recognized – 2001[citation needed]
    • Engineer's Residence, Building D1 Recognized – 1991[27]
    • Factory, Building 51 Recognized – 1991[28]
    • Guard House Building D214 Recognized – 1991[29]
    • Main Office, Building D70 Recognized – 1991[30]
    • Oil Stores Building D83 Recognized – 1991[31]
    • Ordnance Stores, Building D77 Recognized – 1991[32]
    • Pump House, Graving Dock No. 1 Recognized – 1991[33]
    • Royal Navy Prison, Building D26 Recognized – 1991[34]
    • Rum / Salt Meats Stores, Building D75-D76 Recognized – 1991[35]
    • Sail Loft / Oil Stores, Building D109 Recognized – 1991[36]
    • Shipwrights' Shed / Spar Shed, Building D113 Recognized – 1991[37]
    • Stone Frigate Building D38 Recognized – 1991[38]
    • Transformer House, Graving Dock No. 11 Recognized – 1991[39]
    • Veterans' Cemetery Chapel Recognized – 1996[40]
    • Warehouse Building D85 Recognized – 1986[41]
    • Fleet Maintenance Facility Cape Breton, Buildings D250 & D252 Recognized – 1991; Final Construction Completed – 2020[42][43]
  • Naden
    • Administration Block, Building 37 Recognized – 1990[44]
    • Administration Office, former Offices of the Officer-in-Charge, Building 5 Recognized – 1991[45]
    • Catholic Chapel, Building 35 Recognized – 1990[46]
    • Communications School, Building 67 Recognized – 1991[47]
    • Drill Hall Building 33-33A-33B Recognized – 1991[48]
    • Gunnery School, former Building 50 Recognized – 1991[49]
    • Nelles Block, Building 34 Recognized – 1994[50]
    • Officer's Ward / Base Museum, Building 20 Recognized – 1990[51]
    • Protestant Chapel Building 39 Recognized – 1990[52]
    • Radar Training Building 92A Recognized – 2006[53]
    • Stores / Museum Warehouse, Building 29 Recognized – 1990[54]
    • Torpedo School, former Building 2 Recognized – 1991[55]
    • Trades Training Building 92 Recognized – 2006[56]
  • Signal Hill
    • Armament Artificer's and Sergeant's Quarters, former Building 522 Recognized – 1991[57]
    • Gun Emplacement, Building 578 Recognized – 1990[58]
    • Private Married Quarters, former Building 523 Recognized – 1991[59]
    • Reserve Ordnance Stores, former Building 508 Recognized – 1991[60]
  • Work Point Barracks
    • Administration Building 1020 Recognized – 1991[61]
    • Artillery Barracks, Building 1075 Recognized – 1991[62]
    • Barracks Building 1004 Recognized – 1991[63]
    • Work Point Guard House Recognized – 2011[64]
The Institute for Stained Glass in Canada has documented the stained glass at the Multi-Faith Naval Chapel[65] and the stained glass at the Old Naval and Garrison Church (1866), now known as St Paul's Anglican.[66]

en.wikipedia.org

CFB Esquimalt - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org
 
Oldgateboatdriver said:
HM Halifax Dockyard can easily accommodate all 15 CSC's, two AOR's, six to eight submarines, an aircraft carrier the size of the RN QE's class (at the Dartmouth aircraft carrier jetty - of all places -nobody ever thinks of this one and yes, it is currently in disrepair) and a gaggle of smaller supporting vessels.

Esquimalt can handle easily about twice what is currently based there, including possibly a carrier also (would probably require that we ask the shipyard across the bay for some jetty space).

So, no, even if we built up to the size of Navy we should have, we have enough room for the fleet with Halifax and Esquimalt.

What would need new room would be training facilities because supporting such a fleet would use up all of the available room on base for that sole purpose. A new place, like the old Cornwallis or such, where to build what would in effect be a large community college campus, would be required to furnish such fleet with the trained personnel it would need.
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Facility footprint could not support the personnel necessary. A&E storage and safety are also somewhat important (just ask Halifax).
 
That's why I am saying all training facilities would have to be relocated. As for A&E, even today it should really be relocated outside of the greater Halifax Area - but there are locations on the coast, East or West of Halifax that could be acquired and used for that purpose.
 
Oldgateboatdriver said:
That's why I am saying all training facilities would have to be relocated. As for A&E, even today it should really be relocated outside of the greater Halifax Area - but there are locations on the coast, East or West of Halifax that could be acquired and used for that purpose.
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Splitting facilities creates inefficiencies.
 
All kidding aside, Dapaterson, I don't know what "splitting" of facilities you are talking about.

There is no requirement in the RCN for training to take place where the fleet support function is going on. If you mean splitting of support facilities, first, the fleet support can all be done in the dockyard and dockyard annex while all administrative functions are removed to the main base (which, BTW is just next door to the dockyard - Halifax is not like an army sprawling facility).

If you mean the A&E storage, the places I have in mind are not far from Halifax, just much more "remote" from any urbanized area that the current one and transit time for ships would only be a few hours. It's largely irrelevant in peace time, and in wartime, you keep your basic ammo loadout onboard even when in home harbour anyway.
 
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