British thieves to finally return stolen property

[Michael Dorosh]

http://www.heraldnet.com/stories/06/05/28/100wir_a2flags001.cfm

http://www.shareholder.com/bid/downloads/news/20051111-179534.pdf

http://www.nysun.com/article/33511

A collection of articles on Lieutenant Colonel Banastre Tarleton's collection of US flags, now going up for auction after being privately held since their capture during the American Revolution. Can't help but compare and contrast to the recent death of al-Zarqawi. It used to be that fighting for something as ritualistic as a flag or a French eagle was considered noble, and to parade the head of your enemy was considered old fashioned and even barbaric. Circumstances now dictate that flags on the battlefield are rather valueless and displaying enemy leaders a very valuable tool. 

At any rate, the flags are visible in the pdf file linked to. Thought inspiring to say the least.

By the time the scene of the War had shifted to the South in 1780, Tarleton had become a favorite of his commander Lieutenant-General Cornwallis. A string of successes won by him culminated in a complete victory over a Virginia regiment under Colonel Abraham Buford at Waxsaws, near the border of North Carolina and South Carolina on May 29, 1780. In Tarleton’s memoir A History of the Campaigns of 1780 and 1781 in the Southern Provinces of North America, he writes of the battle: “The loss of officers and men was great on the part of the Americans, owing to the dragoons so effectually breaking the infantry, and to a report amongst the cavalry, that they had lost their commanding officer, which stimulated the soldiers to a vindictive asperity not easily restrained. Upwards of one hundred officers and men were killed on the spot; three colours . . . fell into the possession of the victors.”

 

[ExSarge]

I'm curious over the choice of subject line for this thread. I'm not sure who the British thieves are? Are you referring to Tarleton, or his heirs. Although much can be said about "Bloody Tarleton" and his methods. The capturing of colours on the battlefield does not make him a thief. The protocol for the displaying of captured colours is something that to the best of my knowledge has not been formalized. Some units in some countries display them is the Officers Mess. Others were handed over to service museums or national archives. Still others become the property of the commanding officer. I have read of one case where a captured Spanish colour was turned into a shawl for the victors wife!

 

[Michael Dorosh]

I'm curious over the choice of subject line for this thread. I'm not sure who the British thieves are? Are you referring to Tarleton, or his heirs. Although much can be said about "Bloody Tarleton" and his methods. The capturing of colours on the battlefield does not make him a thief. The protocol for the displaying of captured colours is something that to the best of my knowledge has not been formalized. Some units in some countries display them is the Officers Mess. Others were handed over to service museums or national archives. Still others become the property of the commanding officer. I have read of one case where a captured Spanish colour was turned into a shawl for the victors wife!

The subject line was meant to be ironic because it obviously isn't true. The capture of colours was extraordinarily significant in that time period, and would continue to be so for the next 90 years and into the US Civil War, and beyond.

I like what the Russians did with captured regimental standards in Red Square in 1945.

 

[ExSarge]

Thanks for clearing that up. In reference to the Russians Red Square display I have to agree, very impressive. However the next time you get a chance to look at the film footage of this watch the pile of "Colours" closely. Depending on what footage you see and the angle it's shot from it's apparent that the pile has been seeded with items that can only loosly be defined as "Colours" or even military artifacts. This however does not take away from the accomplishment of the Red Army. I have visions of some PR hack screaming during the rehearsals "Make it bigger, make it bigger!"
On a related note, something that is worth noting is the difference between a"Captured Colour" and a "surrendered colour", in how they are treated. For example, after the American civil war, colours captured were the property of the victors. Most being placed in Armories or the Military Academy on display. Those colours surrendered at Appomattox were deemed the property of the U.S. government. Eventually they were returned to the state governments of the surrendering regiments. I believe this was ordered by Teddy Roosevelt when he was President.

 

[AJFitzpatrick]

But when will the King's Royal Hussars return Joseph Bonaparte's Chamberpot ? 

 

[ExSarge]

When they finish using it! Which the way those guys are reputed to drink may be never!

 

[army outfitters]

Now if I only had the money to buy these they would look great in my shop or above my fireplace. I would gladly point them out to any visiting americans for my amusement over a glass or pint. Gee too bad I don't have the coin as I would love to own these

 

[ExSarge]

Nice one BILKO, thanks for reinforcing my stereotypes of arrogant, ugly CDNS." 

Jeez buddy, relax. If you get your blood pressure up every time someone wises off you are going to stroke out before you make O5! (Lt Col to the rest of you). And as for as that ugly Canadian crack, you may want to remember that 50,000 of us served in the U.S. forces in Viet Nam and there are a large number of us serving in American uniform in Iraq. Take Bilko's comment for what it is and treat it with the contempt it deserves. Your over the top response only helps to reinforce the ugly American stereotype that this type of person takes pleasure in perpetuating.

 

[army outfitters]

I guess you missed the part about over a pint. I don't remember insulting you or your country? What would be wrong with wanting these above your fireplace? Obviously you have never been to my store and seen the 1840's 2nd life guards standard that is hanging up. The brits appreciated it. Yes they had a pint too. I think you misunderstand totally