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C3 Howitzer Replacement

childs56 said:
An avenger style turret with a 25-30mm gun with airbusrt rounds and a couple of SAMS. For close in AD
The platform could be truck, Lav, TAPV and almost anything else that has wheels, tracks, floats etc.
If we pushed a system like that out to each battalion/ Reserve unit they could add a valuable resource we can train with and deploy.
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Kind of like the South Korean K30 Biho?
 
@Colin Parkinson my point on the M2’s is it’s just throwing good money after bad.

I’ve tried shooting down drones with several different MG’s. It’s pretty much a waste of ammo, unless you have a Minigun, and then it’s a lot of ammo but you get hits and take them out.


Better the field force generate an actual requirement for MSHORAD.
 
Retired AF Guy said:
Kind of like the South Korean K30 Biho?
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The avenger turret is much smaller. Other wise we minds well fire up the ADATS turrets.
KevinB said:
@Colin Parkinson my point on the M2’s is it’s just throwing good money after bad.

I’ve tried shooting down drones with several different MG’s. It’s pretty much a waste of ammo, unless you have a Minigun, and then it’s a lot of ammo but you get hits and take them out.


Better the field force generate an actual requirement for MSHORAD.
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I watched the Avenger turrets engage aerial drones in Yakima, it was pretty impressive seeing the .50cal fire that quick. I wonder if the Avenger turret with 25mm would be a decent set up for local defence from small to medium size drones.
 
The Avenger has STC Digital, and the M3 fast fire so it’s possible to engage drones - but from what I’ve seen the success rate isn’t exactly awesome unless it’s a larger target.

25mm suffers from payload issues, which is why the dedicated systems have gone to 30mm and larger.

As much as I think a 30-35mm Setup too much a system for something like the MRZR, I’d be curious as to what it could be fielded on. JLTV sized setup may be somewhat possible.
 
As @KevinB noted previously up thread there is already a LAV-based M-SHORAD system and it's being produced by our closest ally. It has both a 30mm cannon with airburst ammo and missiles for larger targets. We can also order Stinger MANPADS to supplement our air defence to maintain commonality with the mounted system. Heck, they're even fielding a Directed Energy version that we could deploy as well.

Why the hell is there any debate as to what we should get?
 
There's still the Oerlikon 35mm. Maybe it's possible to build a Gepard style turret for the LAV.
 
GR66 said:
As @KevinB noted previously up thread there is already a LAV-based M-SHORAD system and it's being produced by our closest ally. It has both a 30mm cannon with airburst ammo and missiles for larger targets. We can also order Stinger MANPADS to supplement our air defence to maintain commonality with the mounted system. Heck, they're even fielding a Directed Energy version that we could deploy as well.

Why the hell is there any debate as to what we should get?
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Because money and it requiring decision making.
 
KevinB said:
For LAV units yes a no brainer (so the CA will go a different route).

I’d like to see a Light version, as well as something for heavier tracked units
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Perhaps we could go with a TAPV version of the USMC MADIS system that mounts on the JLTV using a 30mm cannon/Stinger combo (commonality of munitions with the LAV-based M-SHORAD) along with a soft kill EW suite. There is also a light version that just has the soft kill system (LMADIS) that's mounted to the MRZR.
 
Maxman1 said:
There's still the Oerlikon 35mm. Maybe it's possible to build a Gepard style turret for the LAV.
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Skyranger Anti-Aircraft Gun System | MilitaryToday.com

The Skyranger anti-aircraft gun system was developed by Oerlikon Contraves. It is a short-range air defense system, designed to protect mobile units and stationary installations.
www.militarytoday.com

The Skyranger unmanned turret is a member of a whole modular family of air defense systems. These include battle management, gun systems and missile systems, that can form an air defense architecture. The Skyranger gun system can also operate autonomously or in conjunction with existing missile systems and fire control units.

The Skyranger gun system can be mounted on lightweight wheeled or tracked armored vehicles. First prototypes were integrated on MOWAG Piranha IIIH, Piranha IV and Boxer 8x8 armored personnel carriers.

The unmanned turret is equipped with a 35 mm revolver gun, which is based on successful 35/1000 revolver gun. It has a lot of commonality with the previous Oerlikon Contraves 35 mm air defense artillery systems. It has an dual feeding system, which gives the operator choice of two types of ammunition. This air-defense system is optimized to fire the company's proprietary 35-mm AHEAD (Advanced Hit Efficiency And Destruction) ammunition.
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1706588870143.png


With or without missiles, with or without lasers. Mounted on LAV or Tracks, on trucks, ships and pallets.
 
IKnowNothing said:
MADIS for the light version?
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Seems to be the best option for the JLTV size at this point. I’m still leery of the 30mm on that platform, as I’ve seen how bad a M3 .50 RWS shakes a UA Hummer.

I’m also not keen on the JLTV for certain roles.

I’m thinking a towed version may be more suited for light forces, as it can be unhooked and bedded down. Even if it’s a 2-3 trailer set that can be towed by something like the MRZR.
 
KevinB said:
Seems to be the best option for the JLTV size at this point. I’m still leery of the 30mm on that platform, as I’ve seen how bad a M3 .50 RWS shakes a UA Hummer.

I’m also not keen on the JLTV for certain roles.

I’m thinking a towed version may be more suited for light forces, as it can be unhooked and bedded down. Even if it’s a 2-3 trailer set that can be towed by something like the MRZR.
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At risk of good idea fairying, what about something a like a modernized XM307 (25x 59 grenade) hooked up to a radar FCS?

Get your airburst payload with greatly reduced recoil and weight, but at the cost of range, velocity, and rof- could it effectively engage drones or just too slow?
 
I think we've stepped a long way from the C-3 howitzer as we drift into SHORAD and such...any word on new artillery?
 
IKnowNothing said:
At risk of good idea fairying, what about something a like a modernized XM307 (25x 59 grenade) hooked up to a radar FCS?

Get your airburst payload with greatly reduced recoil and weight, but at the cost of range, velocity, and rof- could it effectively engage drones or just too slow?
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Please never mention that system ever again
 
TBH, anything would be better than the nothing that seems to be happening now....

"Dear all Commonwealth Nations, we are looking to setup a saluting gun battery, and would like to buy all of your old 25 Pdr field guns...please respond with numbers and prices ASAP."

Cover off the saluting gun requirements and get something better for actual use...
 
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