C3 Howitzer Replacement

[Furniture]

All the gun has to do is punt the round into the air so that it can take flight and guide itself to the target.

People have been saying things like that for decades...

Sure better bullets are great, but until those wonder weapons actually exist and can be made in large enough volumes to matter, we need to make the guns themselves better.

 

[KevinB]

People have been saying things like that for decades...

Sure better bullets are great, but until those wonder weapons actually exist and can be made in large enough volumes to matter, we need to make the guns themselves better.

Also those smarty toys are going to do Jack and shit with an enemy that just decides to turn the knobs to 11 on the EW broad spectrum jamming.

 

[quadrapiper]

People have been saying things like that for decades...

Sure better bullets are great, but until those wonder weapons actually exist and can be made in large enough volumes to matter, we need to make the guns themselves better.

See: the Zumwalt-class main battery's round.

 

[FJAG]

Also those smarty toys are going to do Jack and shit with an enemy that just decides to turn the knobs to 11 on the EW broad spectrum jamming.

See: the Zumwalt-class main battery's round.

I think the KISS (Keep it simple, Stupid) principle still holds. I see the value of this concept, assuming it makes it into production, but I have reservations.

 

[OldSolduer]

People have been saying things like that for decades...

Sure better bullets are great, but until those wonder weapons actually exist and can be made in large enough volumes to matter, we need to make the guns themselves better.

There was an Austrian corporal who was enamoured with wonder weapons…

 

[suffolkowner]

Seems like the more fancy munitions are best served coming out of a mlrs

 

[Kirkhill]

Seems like the more fancy munitions are best served coming out of a mlrs

Rockets are becoming more popular it seems.


The article notes that this order has been delayed prompting the Estonians to look farther afield for supplementary systems.

Estonia mulls additional HIMARS buy, while talking with Lockheed competitors - Breaking Defense

“If the delivery times were long, we may need to substitute HIMARS munitions for something else, that’s available faster," said Magnus Saar, Estonia’s national armaments director.

breakingdefense.com

....

Just a reminder that the Brits not only decided to keep their M271s but scrounged some more and decided to increase their planned inventory

British Army to Double Its Fleet of M270 MLRS by 2029

British Army to Double Its Fleet of M270 MLRS by 2029

armyrecognition.com

Britain confirms plans to double rocket artillery fleet

The Ministry of Defence has confirmed plans to upgrade and expand its Multiple Launch Rocket System (MLRS) fleet to 85 vehicles from around 40.

ukdefencejournal.org.uk

-

Gun alternative, bomber alternative, drone alternative, one way attack uncrewed aerial vehicle alternative, loitering attack munition alternative, all of the above.

...

In addition to the rockets though, the Brits may be buying 200 to 250 Boxer RCH155s

Is the British Army set to acquire 200 RCH 155 artillery systems? - Army Technology

A KNDS statement said the UK-German RCH 155 programme could be for up to 400 RCH 155 self-propelled artillery systems.

www.army-technology.com

United Kingdom Accelerates Artillery Programme to Acquire German RCH 1

{loadposition bannertop} Breaking news {loadposition sidebarpub}

armyrecognition.com

...

250 Guns and 85 MRLs seems like a lot of fire power for an army of 75,000 and 2 or 3 divisions.

Agreed

Interesting the way the shape of the Royal Artillery is developing

200-250 RCH-155s
76-85 M271 MRLs

With a renewed emphasis on Air Defence

New order of missiles secures future supply for UK Armed Forces

A significant number of Lightweight Multirole Missiles (LMM) have been ordered by the Government from Thales UK for the supply of the versatile, precision weapon to UK Armed Forces.

www.gov.uk

The Martlet Lightweight Multi-role Missile will equip helicopters and turrets at sea and on shore.

VAMTAC seems to be a preliminary or interim SHORAD (8 km) system to replace or complement the Stormers.
Comparable to the VAMPIRE system based on the slightly smaller 70mm missile family.

New order of missiles secures future supply for UK Armed Forces

A significant number of Lightweight Multirole Missiles (LMM) have been ordered by the Government from Thales UK for the supply of the versatile, precision weapon to UK Armed Forces.

www.gov.uk

IAV 2024: British Army mulls procurement of interim SHORAD system

The British Army is considering the procurement of a new mobile short-range air defence (SHORAD) system to replace its Stormer-based self-propelled high-velocity missile...

www.janes.com

and Sky Sabre (25 km) for longer range engagements

Sky Sabre: A Landmark in UK GBAD Capability

Given the high cost of developing high-technology weaponry, any approach that promises to save time and money is of potential value.

euro-sd.com

....

C-UAS seems to be gravitating to the least cost solutions first

A cheap sensor

a low-cost, flexible and scalable sensor unit for tracking multiple UAS - called Passive Detection & Ranging (PDAR). The PDAR system uses conventional software defined radios, integrated circuits that can be reprogrammed and an innovative implementation of Convolutional Neural Networks (CNN) technology to detect radio frequencies (RF) emitted by drones. The senior (Sic-sensor) unit itself is also silent and stealthy, as it does not emit RF emissions that could alert an adversary.

Defying drones: DASA funded anti-drone sensor is purchased by the Royal Navy

LiveLink Aerospace’s counter-UAS sensor helps protect Royal Navy ships

www.gov.uk

A new sighting system compatible with small arms

Game-changing anti-drone weapon - The British Army

The Army’s close combat soldiers will soon receive a cutting-edge weapon sight that will give them a tactical advantage countering unmanned aerial vehicles (UAVs).

www.army.mod.uk

My sense of the sight is that it is similar in concept to the AIMPOINT FCS for the heavier crew-served weapons.

 

[Kirkhill]

Take this one for what it is worth - a "glossy" video by a vendor.

Driverless systems are ready for the next gear - Breaking Defense

Robotic missile batteries maneuver and fire faster than crewed systems, keeping operators at standoff distances.

breakingdefense.com

But.

It is in line with developments by the USMC (ROGUE-NEMESIS) and the US Army

Driverless systems are ready for the next gear - Breaking Defense

Robotic missile batteries maneuver and fire faster than crewed systems, keeping operators at standoff distances.

breakingdefense.com

Forterra: Groundbreaking, Ground-Based Autonomy

Forterra's AutoDrive® autonomous vehicle system helps defense and industry meet complex logistics challenges with improved efficiency and greater safety for front-line soldiers and civilian workers.

www.forterra.com

Competing with Rheinmetall and Anduril

....

Interesting that the Autonomous Multi-Domain Launcher has two pods like the tracked MLRS and the Korean Chunmoo instead of the single pod of the HIMARS.

Autonomous Multi-domain Launcher meets another program milestone

REDSTONE ARSENAL, Ala. — Mission success. Another pivotal stride was made by the Autonomous Multi-domain Launcher as the combined team of the U.S. Army...

www.army.mil

 

[FJAG]

Interesting that the Autonomous Multi-Domain Launcher has two pods like the tracked MLRS and the Korean Chunmoo instead of the single pod of the HIMARS.

Autonomous Multi-domain Launcher meets another program milestone

REDSTONE ARSENAL, Ala. — Mission success. Another pivotal stride was made by the Autonomous Multi-domain Launcher as the combined team of the U.S. Army...

www.army.mil

Soldiers from the Tennessee Army National Guard 1-181st Field Artillery Regiment were also on hand to train on and operate the AML.

Love it!

I really wish the Canadian artillery, like the Canadian army, didn't have its head up its ass when it comes to equipping reservists with new technology and real war-fighting equipment.

Risk aversion isn't just a state of mind; it's a disease.

 

[Kirkhill]

Related - and not just an RRCA disease.

The hard parts have already been figured out

How to take-off and land and fly a pre-programmed course by way-points. The RPAS programme does that.

Landing on snow and ice is also possible.

....

And for those concerned about Electronic Interference, those emitters could find themselves in HARM's way.

AGM-88 HARM - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

which can be carried by a MAKO or a Valkyrie which can be carried by a C-130.

Lockheed DC-130 - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Kirkhill]

This bit was interesting as well...

AML is an initiative to develop and demonstrate an autonomous, unmanned, highly mobile, C-130 transportable launcher. The prototype launcher will be capable of convoy operations, autonomous way point navigation, tele-operation and remote launcher turret and fire control operation. It will also launch longer munitions while remaining compatible with the current munitions.

Autonomous Multi-domain Launcher meets another program milestone

REDSTONE ARSENAL, Ala. — Mission success. Another pivotal stride was made by the Autonomous Multi-domain Launcher as the combined team of the U.S. Army...

www.army.mil

M30 and Family length - 3.94 m
NSM length - 3.96 m (with booster)
JSM length - 4.00 m
PrSM length - 4.00 m

Tomahawk length - 6.25 m (with booster)
RIM-174 ERAM Standard SM-6 length - 6.6 m

The SM6 and the Tomahawk could both be launched from the AML/HIMARs (7 m long) given that the JLTV (6.2 m long) is a Tomahawk launch platform for the USMC.

That would back burner LM's 40 foot container Mk70 PDS.

The new, Block IB variant of the SM-6 is in development now. It is expected to boast hypersonic speeds and have other improved capabilities, as you can read more about here, and could be added to the Typhon system’s arsenal in the future. Similarly, improved versions of the Tomahawk series of missiles, including types further optimized for antiship use, are also in the works.

The Army Plans To Fire Its Version Of The Navy's SM-6 Missile From This Launcher

The Army will field ground-launched SM-6s and Tomahawk cruise missiles using a launcher that the Navy has also tested on an unmanned boat.

www.twz.com

Options for Fielding Ground-Launched Long-Range Missiles

At a Glance The Department of Defense (DoD) has expressed concern that potential adversaries such as Russia and China could prevent the United States from easily gaining air and naval superiority in future conflicts, which could hinder its ability to prosecute military campaigns in certain...

www.cbo.gov

 

[Kirkhill]

AML rigged for launching longer missiles like the SM6 and Tomahawk ?

 

[dimsum]

Related - and not just an RRCA disease.

The hard parts have already been figured out

How to take-off and land and fly a pre-programmed course by way-points. The RPAS programme does that.

Well yes and no. You’re correct that the MQ-9B can do that but it’s not certain that they have figured it out for something the size of a Herc.

Speaking of which, the “RPAS program” is more correctly “The MQ-9B” program - it was originally called RPAS because there wasn’t a winner yet. We don’t still call the F-35 program “The FFCP”, so we shouldn’t call the MQ-9B program “the RPAS program”.

Anyways.

I think it’s another one of those broad-brush myths that it’s easy or similar to convert anything into a UAS. I have a driver’s license for a car, but that doesn’t mean I can drive a bus or a 18-wheeler. It’s not “plug in X flight control system in to Y airframe” - I wish it was, but that’s not the case at this point.

Also, Hercs are incredibly useful for their main missions so I can’t see the USAF or anyone else converting them to “drone trucks”.

Landing on snow and ice is also possible.

....

And for those concerned about Electronic Interference, those emitters could find themselves in HARM's way.

AGM-88 HARM - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

which can be carried by a MAKO or a Valkyrie which can be carried by a C-130.


View attachment 89005View attachment 89007View attachment 89006

Lockheed DC-130 - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The concept of a “standard” Herc (as in not converted to fly Uncrewed) being a mothership for various UAS is probably more in the realm of possibility (doctrinal, not tech) at this point.

 

[suffolkowner]

https://www.baesystems.com/en-uk/article/multi-million-pound-investment-in-artillery-production-to-create-50-jobs-in-sheffield

am I reading this correctly that the M777 is for sure going to be back in production?

 

[Colin Parkinson]

https://www.baesystems.com/en-uk/article/multi-million-pound-investment-in-artillery-production-to-create-50-jobs-in-sheffield

am I reading this correctly that the M777 is for sure going to be back in production?

Could be be, also possible the M119 or both?

 

[KevinB]

https://www.baesystems.com/en-uk/article/multi-million-pound-investment-in-artillery-production-to-create-50-jobs-in-sheffield

am I reading this correctly that the M777 is for sure going to be back in production?

Yes

It was decided last year and has taken a bit to get up and running.

Another issue being getting Titanium, as Russia has most of it…

 

[Prairie canuck]

Yes

It was decided last year and has taken a bit to get up and running.

Another issue being getting Titanium, as Russia has most of it…

Australia and Canada can easily supply the US with their titanium needs. China has the most.

 

[suffolkowner]

saw an indirect fires modernization slides popping up on the internet
highlights
60-84 155mm systems
wheeled platform
automation to be determined
maybe 40-90 light systems

self propelled howitzers likely 81 mm over 120
manually operated
8x8 or LTV

 

[Maxman1]

Not sure what the point is of a self propelled 81mm, since most vehicles can take a 120, such as the LAV/Stryker variant M1129/M1252.

 

[suffolkowner]

Not sure what the point is of a self propelled 81mm, since most vehicles can take a 120, such as the LAV/Stryker variant M1129/M1252.

seemed strange to me too but I thought maybe someone would comment and explain