Cadets on a Reg force exercise??

[Burrows]

PRCIs apply to Pac Region only.  If one is dead set upon having cadets participating in activities such as this, and has a valid justification for it, then I'm sure DCdts would give either the thumbs up or down over the regional COs.

 

[Nobby]

I will make this brief. If any body of authority creates a rule or rules, that they say will stand as the official word, then they must follow those rules as well. Not just in a military or para-military organization but any body of authority. I'm not saying that common sense should not also be used as well, as most know by now that rules are guidleines for the wise, and law to the idiot. But clearly not following one's own directions can potentialy cause one to appear hypocritical and bring the system around the organization into disrepute.

 

[Roy Harding]

.....tell me what exactly is the difference between a 16 year old cadet Sgt. and a 16 year old Infantry Reserve? Perhaps that deserves another discussion completely. ...

The former is a member of a youth organization.  The latter a member of an Army. 

And you're wrong - it DOESN'T deserve another discussion completely - the Cadets (Army, Sea, and Air), although supported by the CF, are NOT "CF Lite for Kids" - they are an extremely valuable and worthwhile Youth Organization, period.

 

[Burrows]

At the same time, greater powers can go over a lower one.  This happens in the judicial system as well.  Appeals may be made to the higher court.  PRCIs are just that;  they aren't QR&Os or CATOs, and they apply to Pacific Region only.  I'm not too sure where they rank on the official scale, but a region can't override the national authority...the opposite can.

I can understand why cadets want to play capture the flag and other games, and IMO as long as its controlled then I don't see anything wrong with it.  Sure they might be "confused for real members of the military" but IMO that just seems like its taking safety too far.  I'm not advocating for letting cadets run around with guns and tag eachother, but there are more potentially harmful things that we are allowed to do that are less fun. 

Kids join cadets to have fun the "army way" for lack of a better term.  Kids are kids and I see no reason to stop them from playing capture the flag in a remote location on an exercise....at least until Bloggins falls on the flag and impales himself, but thats another reason entirely.

It may seem that I'm advocating for more "warlike activities" in cadets, and while part of me would like to see some added, I can understand why we have guidelines.  Let the kids have their fun, let them play capture the flag that they play in gym class; let them play hide and go seek; and let them practice the camoflauge and concealment and field signals in the handbook.  Personally, as a civvie I'd be more scared of that than a bunch of kids playing something they can do in gym class.

 

[Nobby]

Roy Harding, perhaps I should have been more clear and said the PHYSICAL difference between the two 16 year olds. I was attempting make a point about a previous reference to "international conventions" mentioned by another member, which I believe he was speaking of the "Child Soldier Act." So please, before you dismiss my opinion as wrong, remember that it is my opinion and as such, no reasonable person can call an opinion wrong as it is not a matter of fact. Who is wrong, who is right? This does not concern me.

 

[Roy Harding]

Roy Harding, perhaps I should have been more clear and said the PHYSICAL difference between the two 16 year olds. I was attempting make a point about a previous reference to "international conventions" mentioned by another member, which I believe he was speaking of the "Child Soldier Act." So please, before you dismiss my opinion as wrong, remember that it is my opinion and as such, no reasonable person can call an opinion wrong as it is not a matter of fact. Who is wrong, who is right? This does not concern me.

Fair enough - perhaps you should have been more clear.

As far as the "Child Soldier Act" goes - it doesn't apply to our Cadets - they are NOT/NOT a "part" of the CF.  They are a youth organization - sponsored and supported by the CF.

I believe the rules as they stand are well thought out - as much as Cadets themselves may disagree with them (two of my sons were Cadets - one Air, one Sea - so I know whereof I speak.)  Cadets should NOT be involved in "warlike" training - they SHOULD (and ARE) involved in extremely vigorous and rigorous physical, mental, and personal challenges, which enable them to become the leaders of their peer group.  This is, in my opinion, as it should be.

I did NOT "dismiss your opinion as wrong" - I took issue with it.  You've clarified it, I've clarified mine - all is well with the world.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

We've been down this Cadet / Military road to many times before. They are not military period.  If they were, they would have the QR&O's to follow, not CATOs. Like, their CIC, who are Reservists. As to the type of training, they can do anything boy scouts can do. If you want to stalk, do it to a deer instead of each other. And as been stated, Nobby, your barking up the wrong tree here. Go harangue your proper chain. And while I've got your attention, reel in your neck. Your post are absolutley dripping with vindictiveness and nose in the air psuedo superiority. I don't like stepping on Kyle's toes, but if it doesn't come back on track schnell, it'll be locked.

 

[Gunner]

Res/Reg who join prior to 18 are allowed to under a clause in the "Child Soldier Act", however, they are not allowed to deploy operationally.

See that attached link outlining Canadian safeguard put in place to meet our international obligations.

http://www.child-soldiers.org/document_get.php?id=813

I've had an eight year old point an AK47 at me...one of the sadest things I've ever seen.

 

[Neill McKay]

I will make this brief. If any body of authority creates a rule or rules, that they say will stand as the official word, then they must follow those rules as well.

Why do you think RCSU (Pacific) is in charge of this deployment?  Without having any first-hand information, I'm inclined to believe that it's probably DCdts' show, in which case PRCIs would be irrelevant.

But apart from that, if PRCIs were applicable here, mightn't it simply be a case of someone in HQ interpreting the applicable order differently from you?

 

[Fishbone Jones]

......and I dare say, has more experience and knowledge on the subject (read - is in a legal position, with i's dotted and t's crossed) than a 2Lt CIC officer.

 

[armyguygreg]

Wow

You ex and current Reg Force folks on here, really have it hard for the CIC.  I believed this forum was for anyone to post a subject/concern without being critized from everyone who thinks are KNOW ALL to every regulation in writing.  Just because the one guy who started this topic is only a 2LT doesn't make him stupid or less intelligent as a certain Reg Force Capt in this discussion or other EX reg force members.  Alot of CIC are EX/Previous Reg and PRes members. OR have more experience in Civi world dealing youth than any of you Reg/PRes guys, so give it up and let everyone have word in here. 

PEACE

 

[the 48th regulator]

Wow

You ex and current Reg Force folks on here, really have it hard for the CIC.  I believed this forum was for anyone to post a subject/concern without being critized from everyone who thinks are KNOW ALL to every regulation in writing.  Just because the one guy who started this topic is only a 2LT doesn't make him stupid or less intelligent as a certain Reg Force Capt in this discussion or other EX reg force members.   Alot of CIC are EX/Previous Reg and PRes members. OR have more experience in Civi world dealing youth than any of you Reg/PRes guys, so give it up and let everyone have word in here. 

PEACE

Cheers,

And Welcome to army.ca.

You make a sound argument, that there are CICs' who were previously serving memebers of the REgular or primary reserve.  However,  their posts would show their experience, and if not,  certain Reg Force Capt in this discussion or other EX reg force members would be able to suss this out, wouldn't you agree?

Again welcome,

dileas

tess

 

[Michael OLeary]

PEACE

DONE.

Cadets/CIC FAQ and Related Websites - UPDATED
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/21472.0.html

The DEAD END Topics.

While most FAQ lists focus on helpful topics answering legitimate recurring questions, there has also been unfortunate recurrences of less desirable topics in the Cadet Forum. The following threads provide some of these discussions, and should be read thoroughly by any cadets thinking about opening threads on weapons training, combat training or that openly question the intent and purpose of the Cadet program by confusing its intents with those of Reserve or Regular Force training. Note that all of these threads were locked for very good reasons, as will similar threads.

Why Can't we Fire C-7's or Better?

This is Cadets not Boy Scouts

Combat Training in the Cadet Program

Should RCAC Allow Combat Training?

DND Making Cadets Less Military Every Year

Cadets Becoming Less and Less Interesting

Cadets Becoming Too Much Like Boy Scouts

Military Games for Cadets

Cadets Taking Things Too Far

Cadets on a Reg force exercise??