Can. Govt. intends to upgrade CF188s for service until 2025

[CougarKing]

Final retirement date moved from 2022 to 2025...

Toronto Star

Canadian CF-18 fighter jets to be kept in use until 2025

The Conservative government says it will extend the life of its fleet of CF-18 fighters.

By: The Canadian Press, Published on Tue Sep 30 2014

OTTAWA—The Harper government says it will extend the life of its fleet of CF-18 fighters.

A spokeswoman for Defence Minister Rob Nicholson says the jets are an important component of the country’s defence and will be updated to keep them flying until 2025.

Johanna Quinney says the air force needs a fighter strike capability, but also aircraft that are capable of fulfilling a variety of other missions, such as patrol and air-to-air interception.

(...SNIPPED)

 

[vonGarvin]

I miss the bad old days, when we had an interceptor for intercepting

and a fighter/bomber to fight and bomb.

But we also had a high altitude interceptor in the nuclear deterrent role

so, I guess the idea of buying a jet to do one thing, and then using it in a different way is not without precedent...

 

[AlexanderM]

I'm thinking it takes a bit of presure off and buys some time for them to show that the F35 is the right choice? 

Like seeing the pic of the Starfighter, remember reading somewhere that when it was taken out of service there still weren't many fighters that could keep up to it, especially at low alttitudes.  Anyone for an updated F104? lol

 

[GR66]

I'd hardly put forward the CF-5 as an example of good aircraft procurement practice. 

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Meanwhile, overheard at the Hanger in Cold Lake; "Dang! Corporal better order some more duct tape and crazy glue."

 

[Eye In The Sky]

Sea King.  Buffalo.  Aurora.  Tutor.

Why would anyone be surprised we are flying old fighters?

 

[Kirkhill]

You're not the only ones struggling

http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/ramshackle-army-at-odds-with-berlin-s-global-aspirations-a-994607.html

Bundeswehr - Operational Capability of Select Weapons Systems

Weapons System Total Number Available Deployable

Tiger helicopter 31* 10 10
NH90 helicopter 33* 8 8
Sea King helicopter 21 15 3
Sea Lynx helicopter 22 18 4
CH53 helicopter 83 43 16

Eurofighter fighter jet 109 74 42
Tornado fighter jet 89 66 38

K130 corvette 5 2 2
U212 submarine 4 1 1
Frigates 11 8 7

Marder tank 406 280 280
Boxer tank 180 70 70

Total stock = all procured units
Available = in operation, including systems currently out of service because of maintenance or repair
Deployable = can be used immediately for missions, exercises or training

 

[Quirky]

Meanwhile, overheard at the Hanger in Cold Lake; "Dang! Corporal better order some more duct tape and crazy glue."

That stuff is usually an HPR from Montreal or Edmonton.

 

[vonGarvin]

Like seeing the pic of the Starfighter, remember reading somewhere that when it was taken out of service there still weren't many fighters that could keep up to it, especially at low alttitudes.  Anyone for an updated F104? lol

There is an air demonstration team in the US that fly former CF Starfighters.  As they say in the videos, it is the fastest jet at the airshow. 

Here is a vid of an airshow from 2009.

 

[AlexanderM]

There is an air demonstration team in the US that fly former CF Starfighters.  As they say in the videos, it is the fastest jet at the airshow. 

Here is a vid of an airshow from 2009.

Awesome!!  Thanks for that!  The Starfighter had a 48-69Kn engine and Mach 2 speed, imagine it with the most powerful f16 engine, I believe they have one around 160Kn, now that would be fast.

 

[Cloud Cover]

Just my 0.02, but I would think probably the most efficient overall upgrade would be a one for one lease swap for F18F Advanced Super Hornets. There is precedent for this with the CF101 Voodoo upgrade swap in the 1960's, and yes the 2 aircraft were essentially different platforms altogether but the government still went ahead.

I am guessing that retaining the current CF18 fleet, whether flying with or without upgrades until 2025 seems like an impossible task without essentially upgrading every major system on the aircraft several times over. It seems to me that the cost of this, taken together with the costs of eventually acquiring the F-35, the combined price tag will be astronomically higher than the figures already under review.

Somebody needs to have some leadership here. Just switch the aircraft one for one, get on with it and get it done ASAP. Then, in 2030, start looking at whatever will be replacing the F22 and F 35.






 

 

[dimsum]

Just my 0.02, but I would think probably the most efficient overall upgrade would be a one for one lease swap for F18F Advanced Super Hornets. There is precedent for this with the CF101 Voodoo upgrade swap in the 1960's, and yes the 2 aircraft were essentially different platforms altogether but the government still went ahead.

I'm assuming you mean the F/A-18E (single seat) instead of the F variant (dual-seat, with a Weapons Systems Officer at the back)?  If you mean F (fair enough), we need to train ACSOs as WSOs, etc.  Not impossible (and I'm sure some would welcome it) but it'd take some time, even if we piggy-backed on the USN or RAAF WSO training system.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

I'm assuming you mean the F/A-18E (single seat) instead of the F variant (dual-seat, with a Weapons Systems Officer at the back)?  If you mean F (fair enough), we need to train ACSOs as WSOs, etc.  Not impossible (and I'm sure some would welcome it) but it'd take some time, even if we piggy-backed on the USN or RAAF WSO training system.

Isn't there some ASO-flavoured ACSOs who are looking for seats to fly in?  8)

 

[dimsum]

Isn't there some ASO-flavoured ACSOs who are looking for seats to fly in?  8)

No food, strapped into a bang-seat for the entire time and you get to pee into a bag (I think).  I can't see too many ASOs going for that! 

Oh, and your postings are Cold Lake or Bagotville. 

 

[Eye In The Sky]

No food, strapped into a bang-seat for the entire time and you get to pee into a bag (I think).  I can't see too many ASOs going for that! 

Oh, and your postings are Cold Lake or Bagotville.

Ya...I figure most would run and hide after the words "no toaster" were spoken.  >

 

[OldSolduer]

Awesome!!  Thanks for that!  The Starfighter had a 48-69Kn engine and Mach 2 speed, imagine it with the most powerful f16 engine, I believe they have one around 160Kn, now that would be fast.

Airplanes are not really my specialty but I will compare it to a car originally equipped with a six cylinder being upgraded to a 6.2 L Hemi engine producing almost 500 HP. If not reinforced properly the car frame will twist and bend from the torque of the Hemi.
Could the F-104 airframe handle such an upgrade?

 

[observor 69]

No food, strapped into a bang-seat for the entire time and you get to pee into a bag (I think).  I can't see too many ASOs going for that! 

Oh, and your postings are Cold Lake or Bagotville.

So I assume a posting request to Wing Ops at Bagotville or Cold Lake is out ? >

 

[dimsum]

So I assume a posting request to Wing Ops at Bagotville or Cold Lake is out ? >

Unless they just created a new town/city called Bagotville or Cold Lake on Vancouver Island or BC mainland coast that I wasn't aware of.... 

 

[AlexanderM]

Airplanes are not really my specialty but I will compare it to a car originally equipped with a six cylinder being upgraded to a 6.2 L Hemi engine producing almost 700 HP. If not reinforced properly the car frame will twist and bend from the torque of the Hemi.
Could the F-104 airframe handle such an upgrade?

An update would require some redesign, no question, and the materials we have now are superior to then, so wouldn't likely be a problem.  The redesign would include supercruise and internal bays, don't ask me where though, as this is all just fantasy land.  lol

 

[SupersonicMax]

Might aswell buy something new...  To be honest, the systems in the aircraft are not the issue.  The airframe is.  And this is quite expensive to replace (centerbarrel replacement for example).

What we SHOULD have done is buy Super Hornet back in early 2000s instead of upgrading legacy Hornets to R2.  Then we would have time to make an informed decision on NGFC....