Can I do army and school at the same time?

[MrCanada]

Hello everyone,

before anything else I would like to thank the people that helped me out on my last two threads concerning my acne and me cutting my hair. It wasn't easy, but I decided that serving in the forces and doing my bit to protect the country was more important than what a few people thought about my appearance. That's why I went out today and got it cut army length. Perfect time too I suppose, with summer just starting and weather being warm and whatnot. So again, I know I was a bit whiny and everything, but thank you for your support and advice and hopefully I have something to look forward to in the future!

Now, I just graduated from High School in June. I've applied to University but at this point I really have no idea what I want to do for the rest of my life. Unfortunately I wasn't able to attend my first choice (UBC Science) even though I got in, so instead I'm waiting for the go-ahead from a local community college/university and hopefully get into the Arts program even though I'm a late applicant.

Now, my father seems to think that the sole purpose of a University education is to be able to rake in the cash once it's over. That's why he's been pressuring me to change departments and instead go into Business or Engineering because after 4 years of undergrad I'll be able to land a nice paying job and then be able to continue studying further and get a Masters or PhD if I so choose to.

I don't find business very appealing at all, and although engineering is better, I don't know if it's for me. I'm more of a sciency/artsy kind of guy. I won't get too far into this but basically his biggest concern is that after the 4 years of undergrad I won't be able to get a job because I'll need to do further schooling and our financial situation makes that almost impossible.

So that's why I'm posting on here. The army is something I was interested in anyways, but if it can help me out with school, then even better. I have a few questions and hopefully someone on here can answer them.

1) Is it possible for me to do undergrad at the university of my choice and be a reservist (part-time) in the army at the same time?

2) How would I go about doing basic training during the school year?

3) How often would I have to work? How many hours a week?

4) After the 4 years are up, and if I decide to go to Grad School, would the army still help pay for some of my schooling?

That's about all I can think of right now, thank you again for taking the time to read the entire thing, I know that it was pretty long! Nothing would make me happier than being able to serve my country and get my education at the same time

Take care everyone!

 

[dimsum]

1) Is it possible for me to do undergrad at the university of my choice and be a reservist (part-time) in the army at the same time?

2) How would I go about doing basic training during the school year?

3) How often would I have to work? How many hours a week?

4) After the 4 years are up, and if I decide to go to Grad School, would the army still help pay for some of my schooling?

To answer your questions:

1.  Yes.  That is part of the point of being a reservist vice regular force member.
2.  Depends on the element and unit, but generally courses are run in the summers or weekends (or both.)  Check with the unit you're looking into.
3.  Generally (Class A) once a week for parade night and some weekends.  It will wildly vary between units so again, check with the unit you're looking into.
4.  There used to be a $2000/year "grant" from the CF for any schooling (college, uni, etc.)  I'm not sure if it exists anymore.  Alternatively, check out the RETP program at RMC, which is the Reserve version of ROTP. 

Now, let me rant for a bit:

Your father is, with all due respect, wrong about what uni is all about.  While some high-paying careers are built on uni graduates (e.g. Engineering, MD, etc.), a uni education isn't the magic bullet to getting a great job, ESPECIALLY after just an undergrad.  There are so many Bachelor-qualified people that having an undergrad degree is pretty much the same as what graduating high school was, say 40 years ago.  Case in point:  My mom (high-school educated) was a lab tech in the Ministry of Health before she retired.  The person who replaced her was required to have an M.Sc because there were so many B.Sc candidates.  The work is the same and clearly a high-school grad could do it, but the requirements got pushed up because everyone had a B.Sc.

As for Business, unless you get into a prestigious HBA program, the chances of raking in the dough after 4 years of school are pretty slim.  Then again, business is based on "who you know, not what you know" so networking skills are paramount.  I graduated from a specialized business program and out of the 30 or so people I still keep in touch with, only a few have continued working in the management side of that field and even then, most went on to get an MBA to really get anywhere. 

If you're looking strictly at $ (or, more correctly, if your father is doing that), trades actually pay more and are usually in demand.  Sure, being an electrician doesn't sound as prestigious as being a Pilot, but compare the usual salaries (ie. don't look at the top of the pay scale at Cathay Pacific or Emirates Airlines) and you'll be surprised at a) how much electricians make and b) how little Pilots make.

Alright, rant off.

 

[MrCanada]

To answer your questions:

1.  Yes.  That is part of the point of being a reservist vice regular force member.
2.  Depends on the element and unit, but generally courses are run in the summers or weekends (or both.)  Check with the unit you're looking into.
3.  Generally (Class A) once a week for parade night and some weekends.  It will wildly vary between units so again, check with the unit you're looking into.
4.  There used to be a $2000/year "grant" from the CF for any schooling (college, uni, etc.)  I'm not sure if it exists anymore.  Alternatively, check out the RETP program at RMC, which is the Reserve version of ROTP. 

Now, let me rant for a bit:

Your father is, with all due respect, wrong about what uni is all about.  While some high-paying careers are built on uni graduates (e.g. Engineering, MD, etc.), a uni education isn't the magic bullet to getting a great job, ESPECIALLY after just an undergrad.  There are so many Bachelor-qualified people that having an undergrad degree is pretty much the same as what graduating high school was, say 40 years ago.  Case in point:  My mom (high-school educated) was a lab tech in the Ministry of Health before she retired.  The person who replaced her was required to have an M.Sc because there were so many B.Sc candidates.  The work is the same and clearly a high-school grad could do it, but the requirements got pushed up because everyone had a B.Sc.

As for Business, unless you get into a prestigious HBA program, the chances of raking in the dough after 4 years of school are pretty slim.  Then again, business is based on "who you know, not what you know" so networking skills are paramount.  I graduated from a specialized business program and out of the 30 or so people I still keep in touch with, only a few have continued working in the management side of that field and even then, most went on to get an MBA to really get anywhere. 

If you're looking strictly at $ (or, more correctly, if your father is doing that), trades actually pay more and are usually in demand.  Sure, being an electrician doesn't sound as prestigious as being a Pilot, but compare the usual salaries (ie. don't look at the top of the pay scale at Cathay Pacific or Emirates Airlines) and you'll be surprised at a) how much electricians make and b) how little Pilots make.

Alright, rant off.

Thank you, great answer

When you say "check with the unit you're looking into", are you talking about like whether I want to be infantry/artillery/armour etc... or are you talking about the reserve unit closest to my home (that I'll be getting in touch with)? This also brings me to my next point, which is, when I do BMQ, will I do it at the reserve unit that is closest/most convenient, or does it depend on what I want to do after BMQ is complete (like whether I want to be infantry or artillery etc...)?

As for the University bit, personally, I don't need to be making six figures to be happy. My dad as well isn't trying to force me into something I don't want to do, it's just that he knows that I'll need to be taking out student loans to help pay for my education and the government requires you to start paying it back 6 months after you graduate from the 4 years, so I'll need to find a decent job to do that.  Your thoughts on this?

At this point I see myself with 4 options:

a) Get a degree in something (probably English) and see where that takes me. I wouldn't mind teaching High School, but I know that I'll have other options. Working for a company writing reports, magazine articles etc... there is a whole lot I could do.

b) Apply to Medical School after undergrad. You can major in anything you like and still go to Medical School as long as you take all the prerequisite courses. I've always been very good at Math, I'm great at Biology and Chemistry, plus I find the material interesting (medicine), so this is a possibility.

c) Become a Police Officer. I have a lot of respect for them and what they do, although not my first choice, being a reservist in the army would definitely help my chances.

d) Become a Full-time member of the Canadian Army. I could see myself doing it for the rest of my life and the opportunities are endless.

But again, for almost all the above options, I'd need to find a job pretty quick right out of undergrad. My dad feels a business or engineering degree would be best.

 

[dimsum]

Thank you, great answer

When you say "check with the unit you're looking into", are you talking about like whether I want to be infantry/artillery/armour etc... or are you talking about the reserve unit closest to my home (that I'll be getting in touch with)? This also brings me to my next point, which is, when I do BMQ, will I do it at the reserve unit that is closest/most convenient, or does it depend on what I want to do after BMQ is complete (like whether I want to be infantry or artillery etc...)?

Both, in the sense that you obviously would want to know which branch of the Army you are looking to join (Cbt arms, etc.) and the actual unit itself.  The Reserves recruit specifically for their unit, so if you want to be an Armour crewman and the closest unit to your place is Infantry, then they won't enroll you as an Armour crewman.  This is different than the Reg Force where every recruiting centre deals with any applicant. 

As for BMQ...check with the unit.  As I said, things vary between them a lot.

As for the University bit, personally, I don't need to be making six figures to be happy. My dad as well isn't trying to force me into something I don't want to do, it's just that he knows that I'll need to be taking out student loans to help pay for my education and the government requires you to start paying it back 6 months after you graduate from the 4 years, so I'll need to find a decent job to do that.  Your thoughts on this?

I'm not trying to dissuade you from doing a business/eng degree.  I was just suggesting that an undergrad business degree doesn't really hold a lot of weight anymore. 

 

[Jarnhamar]

Just some food for thought;

u) //university//

I don't have university but I do know a lot of people with various university degrees-friends and acquaintances.
University doesn't mean work. SOME jobs only look at your application if you have a university degree, doesn't matter in what... 
On the other hand there are a lot of people in college right now who have university degrees. They were forced to 'slum it' and goto college afterwards because they couldn't find any work in their (university) field.

A friend of mine has a double major in history and English (I think) and she's working at tim hortons and doing home care via a 1 month PSW course because she couldn't find anything in her field.
Lots of university grads working in fast food.  Obviously I'm not saying don't go to university but do some research and be smart about where you spend your money and time- A degree doesn't mean you're raking in money.

c) Become a Police Officer. I have a lot of respect for them and what they do, although not my first choice, being a reservist in the army would definitely help my chances.

I have not found this to always be accurate. Some police forces look at your reserve experience and it helps you along. Other police forces don't care one but if you've been in the army or not.

d) Become a Full-time member of the Canadian Army. I could see myself doing it for the rest of my life and the opportunities are endless.

Or you could go full time for 10 years, pick up a ton of courses and then leave the CF and go down another career path.  Full time member doesn't mean you have to be a lifer.

 

[jeffb]

Ok, so obviously a university degree, even a Masters, is not a guarantee for a job. However, it does not hurt. I think that the best combination is one of the 4 year degree/diploma programs being offered these days so that you can get both practical experience and the broad critical thinking education that the university experience is supposed to provide. According to the Government of Ontario, 70% of new jobs require either post-secondary education or "enhanced skills training" which I take to mean trade training. http://www.tcu.gov.on.ca/eng/document/brochure/ProgrameGuide2010.pdf

Saying that an undergrad won't get you a job is like saying that High School doesn't have value because I won't give you a job. I, and I suspect the people who posted earlier, reject this logic. Education has a value unto itself and while there are a ton of examples of people who succeeded without education, I suspect that there are very few examples of people who succeeded in spite of their education as any education, even a BA in basket weaving, can only add to your skills and thinking "tool box".

 

[dangles]

I was in my 3rd year of a combined honours program in two liberal arts majors, and I joined the reserves last summer.  I did BMQ through September to January of this year, and SQ from February to the end of the May [your trade training, known as DP1 or QL3 occurs in the summer].  Basically I had to go away about 2-3 weekends per month in both BMQ and SQ, while also I had to attend our parade nights on a regular basis [a parade night is a regular night of training that last for about 3 hours on a specific day based on your unit]. Now I 'lucked out' in the sense that my unit did not really want us to parade much until we were fully trained, so this helped for school, however other recruits would have to attend every parade night with the unit.

So clearly it is a lot of time away from studying - luckily I had good enough habits that I could handle it. However, if you are going into your first year of university, I imagine it will be much harder for you since you will not be accustomed to the stresses and workload of university. Furthermore, if you think you will be able to study while you're away on those weekends, then think again....you will not have the drive or the time. Also, it's important to remember that the reserves still does have that maximum $2000 reimbursement for education, but you must have completed recruit training before you start the school year in order to be eligible for it...I did not get it this year because of that reason.

My last piece of advice is maybe wait to join the reserves until after your first year of university - first year was where I met most of my current friends/roommates, and it truly is a fun experience [especially if you live on res]. More importantly, you will not be accustomed to a university workload so if you try the reserves in first year it MAY lead you to become stretched too thin and ultimately fail in your university or reserve goal. Once you are in 2nd year you will have a better grasp of the system and should be able to cope with the stresses better...but thats just my  :2c:.

 

[Osotogari]

I would suggest you get on with joining up while you're still in school, as your summers will be free to get as many courses as possible out of the way.  Once you're through school and start with your career and family, courses will become difficult if not impossible.  If you don't get your courses out of the way, you won't get the experience you're hoping for and I think you'll regret it for a long time. 

It does take a lot of self-discipline to get through the weekend course schedule if you are in a full-time situation during the week.  If you're in a program at school that is of any intensity, you simply won't have any breaks during the time you're on course as your spare time will be used keeping your nose above water with your studies. You won't have much of an opportunity for studying during course weekends, twelve or fourteen hour days in the garrison aren't out of the question, look for twenty-plus hour days when you're in the field.

Your situation is far from unique, and will be unlikely to change.  Weekend recruit courses for the parts of Canada west of Thunder Bay will be the norm for a while.  The Western Area Trade Centre in Wainwright, Alberta, seems to have made it clear that they are out of the reserve recruit course business, but I can't speak to what's happening in other parts of the country. 

 

[Pusser]

Have you considered ROTP, where the CF pays your tution, buys your books and pays you to go to school?