Can they do this to us???

[wern32]

As you stated 10 of 12 pers did not do well on the test. You were one of the two who passed. You think that it is unfair that those ten people will have to "endure" 2 hours of remedial training.
   Now you think that this is unfair to the married pers as they will be forced to make alternate plans for child care.
   Here is a cunning plan........you look after the kids. After all, you are the consumate course mate worried about the welfare of your buds. You are free it seems and what could display coursemanship better?

   I figure you have received approx 100+ years of cumulative advice here. I strongly urge you to take it.Time to buck up pal and get on with it. Stop looking at ways to take the easy way out. Get off the internet, shine your shoes and get a haircut.

   Yes   they can do it to you. "They" are trying to have all of you pass the course. Even if it means dragging students through.

Wow, that is a ridiculous thing to say

 

[aesop081]

Wow, that is a ridiculous thing to say

Whats so ridiculous about it ? the fact that instructors want you to pass or the fact that your kids are your problem ?


i think you have lost sight of what you are doing for a living............wake the **** up !!

 

[wern32]

Attention to detail...
I dont have kids and as I stated they needed to give us more notice before impossing this type of punishment.  This course does not fall in the same catagory as a battle shcool course because it is over 9 months, it is a posting.  It follows much like a battalion course, where you need to give pers an alotted time to prepare.  In a battalion course this is usually 24hrs notice.

As I mentioned this problem has been solved and in fact we were required more notice.

 

[George Wallace]

Wow alot of 60's mentallity in the responses.

You know.....that mentality got many of us through tough courses and tougher situations.    

The instructors are civilian and they did not think we needed remedial, it was the military personnel that said we had to come in.

They had no instructor present during this time, it was mearly a forced study time

So!   The Government doesn't want to waste money on paying a Civie overtime due to your Coursemates shortcomings.   The reasons you have this "Study Period" have already been stated to you.  

For those who are stating the "suck it up mentality" you are wrong.   The individual could have refused to come in but no compensation will or can we given for him coming in.

True!   That 'Individual' could have taken it upon him/herself and refused to come in.   However, there are serious repercussions for acts of insubordination.

Your posts have me wonding if you have learned anything at all in eight years of military service.  I am having doubts as to your worth to the CF if you continue to whine about having to learn and do extra studies to achieve a pass.  Are you the people the CF wants?

Attention to Detail.  Every Course in the CF has the same Methods of Instruction, the same pressures to achieve high marks and pass, be it in a Battalion, at Battle School, at RMC, at Language School......don't think any are going to let you carry on as you think by your statements.  The more you post, the more we are likely to ask you if you would like some cheese to go with you whine. 

:'(

 

[aesop081]

Attention to detail...
I dont have kids and as I stated they needed to give us more notice before impossing this type of punishment.   This course does not fall in the same catagory as a battle shcool course because it is over 9 months, it is a posting.   It follows much like a battalion course, where you need to give pers an alotted time to prepare.   In a battalion course this is usually 24hrs notice.

As I mentioned this problem has been solved and in fact we were required more notice.

i was generalizing the situation when i mentioned the kids.

As for your course being a posting.  Listen here, my aesop course was over a year long...  We had to deal with having to come in on an irregular schedule all the time as flights changed and airplanes broke.  Even here at sqn i have to call in on days off ( and days off arent realy days off)  to make sure that i am not flying due to changes. I lived attached to a cell phone  Things change daily.  If my kids lived with me i would have to be prepared for that now wouldnt i ? " I cant find a babysitter" isnt an excuse for me not to fly for a SAR call or a counter-drug op !!

So you had top come in extra time.....bohoohoo...thats what you are paied for.

"if you dont like it get the f*** out"

 

[NCRCrow]

AESOP said it right...

If u dont like it , get out.

Spoiled kids.

Duty above self.

 

[wern32]

We already have been apologized too and were told that it wouldnt happen again.  Because of it we were taken off extra studies and were even given a later timing following morning. (Which I was hung over for after drinking and eating my cheese and wine)

If it wernt for people complaining our military would be filled with mindless drones.

We were wronged, we complained, it was rectified and now we carry on.

For those that dont agree, should redo their leadership training or better yet consult the "Principles of leadership" which very few follow.

 

[aesop081]

We already have been apologized too and were told that it wouldnt happen again.  Because of it we were taken off extra studies and were even given a later timing following morning. (Which I was hung over for after drinking and eating my cheese and wine)

If it wernt for people complaining our military would be filled with mindless drones.

We were wronged, we complained, it was rectified and now we carry on.

For those that dont agree, should redo their leadership training or better yet consult the "Principles of leadership" which very few follow.

I'm quite sure i dont need leadership lessons from you.

maybe YOU should read this and reflect on your shortcomings....    http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/33510.0.html

 

[NCRCrow]

Wern:

as a retread yourself , these junior people look up to u especially being combat arms. (ex VP)

Being a retread myself from the Royals for 3 years, fellow course members look up to u as a defacto leader. ( I was there myself)

Instead of finding faults and researching outdated CFAO's etc.

Take charge, make an action plan for your instructors to rectify the fault and assure them of your course's ability to pass.

Leadership................AESOP is capable and able...........

concentrate on your own team's goals vice complaining

 

[wern32]

Im a little confussed at all the animosity of my post.

I originally wanted to find some reference material to find out if we were wronged and found out through work we were but pers still insist that Im whinning.

I feel I am a leader and plan on advancing futher in the military.  I take the principles of leadership extremely seriously and would like to be the fist leader to actually follow them.  I love the military but just dont like what I see sometimes

 

[aesop081]

Im a little confussed at all the animosity of my post.

I originally wanted to find some reference material to find out if we were wronged and found out through work we were but pers still insist that Im whinning.

I feel I am a leader and plan on advancing futher in the military.   I take the principles of leadership extremely seriously and would like to be the fist leader to actually follow them.   I love the military but just dont like what I see sometimes

I take them very seriously as well......were you impying that i dont ?

I love the military too and the whining that comes out of you is what i dont like these days...i see alot of guys like you.   You have a job to do no matter what it takes to get done.   Do you think that my boss comes and apologise when he tells me i cant have my days off as there are a shortage of guys to fly ?   Do you think i feel wronged by that ?

Service before thy self.....

You consider yourself a leader ?   leadership isnt just following the principles written out...those are nice but you can follow them to the letter and still not be a leader.   Thats the difference between PLQ leadership and real ledership.

Your original point is still bullocks.   Always has been and always will be.

 

[George Wallace]

Im a little confussed at all the animosity of my post.

I originally wanted to find some reference material to find out if we were wronged and found out through work we were ...........

Could you elaborate a bit more as to what you found out at work or who told you that you had been wronged?  Perhaps a Directive/Routine Order/QR&O/DADO/CFAO or some reference to how you were wronged?  Most of us don't see that you were wronged at all.  If your Staff want to admit they wronged you, without giving any references, then perhaps they were "weak" leaders (not the first time that has happened at that School).

 

[TCBF]

"Wow alot of 60's mentallity in the responses."

- Ah, yes, the 60s.. When Canada had Nukes on Starfighters, Voodoos, Bomarcs and Honest Johns..

So, WTF?  You joined the army with the condos, right?

Tom

 

[wern32]

Basically because the school is consider purly acedemic with a set schedual, and they post your family with, you by not giving us time to adequetly prepare they are in fact effecting your family.  Proper time is required to, either rearange your wife's schedule or find a child care provider.  The personnel living in the shacks are sh!@ out of luck but living off pers fall into a different catagory because your family is considered part of the military family.  By not giving adequet prep time (usually 24hrs notice) your family has to make sacrifices to compensate.  This can put a strain on a family and eventually lead to personnel problems which in turn will affect the members ability to do his or her job.  So the school directives are quite clear on the working hours of day to day activities but they are allowed to ammend these with proper notification.

We found this out through our staff, which no offence to some, but are reservist for the most part and are trying to run the school like something they saw in a movie.

 

[George Wallace]

We found this out through our staff, which no offence to some, but are reservist for the most part and are trying to run the school like something they saw in a movie.

Ah! Yes!   The civilianization of the CF.   I had a couple of friends who OT'd to LCIS a couple of years ago.   Their Crse WO was a Female Sgt who didn't have the abilities to organize a party in a Brewery.   No doubt she filled several Visible Minority slots, including being paralysed from the neck up and was promoted.   ;D  And we wonder where all our problems come from.  (I have heard a lot more stories of goings on down there, but those are for another time and place.)

 

[TCBF]

Okay.  

In my first post in this thread, I alluded to no garuntee of command exercising common sense and good judgement.  Any course or unit is only as effective as the people leading it.  Lions cannot be led by sheep, but lions also have to understand that there are certain accepted protocols we generally follow when leading our pride.  Understanding the broader military family and adequate notice and information are considered standard these days, and generally always have been.

Exigencies of the service are one thing, disorganization another.  Although no formal regulation may exist that says "They can't" , good judgement may well suggest "They shouldn't."

So, they may have flinched, got called on it, and have wised up.

A happy ending.

But why, pray tell, do you have reserve instructors on a Reg F POET course?

Inquiring minds want to know.

Tom

 

[aesop081]

But why, pray tell, do you have reserve instructors on a Reg F POET course?

Inquiring minds want to know.

Tom

Tom,

i think that its besides the point.

 

[TCBF]

"i think that its besides the point."

- Yeah, yer prob'ly right.

Tom

 

[wern32]

civilians teach and course directors are military

 

[meni0n]

Whatever happend to people taking responsability for their own actions? You fuck up, you do the punishement.