CAN-USA Tariff Strife (split from various pol threads)

[JLB50]

We

When trudeau steps up to the mic and tells the world that Trump is trying to crash our economy in order to annex us, that is scaremongering.

There's a difference between feeling worried and looking for solutions or being scared and putting your head in the sand.

I'm worried about what can happen, but I'm not scared of an invasion, soft or hard.

worried
adjective
Thinking about unpleasant things that have happened or that might happen;
Afflicted with or marked by anxious uneasiness or trouble or grief.
Mentally upset over possible misfortune or danger etc.

scared
adjective
Having fear; afraid, frightened.
Made afraid.
"too shocked and scared

I discerned a difference between the two. YMMV.

Trump himself has basically said he wants to destroy our economy. I know, I know…we can’t take him at his word. He’s only kidding.

 

[RangerRay]

Those familiar with Charles Burton know him as the former diplomat in Beijing who has been trying to warn Canadians of Beijing’s influence, interference and intimidation campaigns for years. Now he has warnings about our neighbours to the south.

Donald Trump has extreme designs on Canada: Here is what he really wants

Trump's playbook: Trigger a crisis with ultimatums too vague to be met, negotiate with conditions that would be crippling, then "settle" for the actual goals: fresh water, minerals, manufacturing jobs.

www.thestar.com

It appears to be behind a paywall but it’s open on Apple News if you have it

As for grabbing natural resources, think Ukraine. Because wealthier, more populous America has borne most of the cost of North American defence, Trump will demand massive retro-compensation in return for lifting devastating tariffs. No more neighbourhood discount on mutual security, or sharing U.S. intelligence through the Five Eyes alliance.

As those "51st-state" taunts purposely imply, a sinister threat menaces our political, cultural and economic autonomy. Trump has little interest in sovereign borders or international law, and as the world abruptly careens with startling speed toward great-power imperialism, he is quickly realigning with Moscow and Beijing to revive colonial-like control over nations too weak to repel well-armed autocrats.

Canada isn't the only hostage in this maze of greed, but we're fully exposed in the very front row for Donald Trump's line of fire.

This is a legitimately existential moment when Canadians must unite, and the country must have determined leadership — in Ottawa and in every provincial capital — that discards partisan division and regionalism in favour of collaboration and the poise to identify all sensible measures required to confront the challenges we face.

 

[Remius]

Ontario will keep U.S. booze off LCBO shelves and go ahead with energy tax despite one-month pause on tariffs on some goods

Ontario Premier Doug Ford tells CNN that the province will place a 25 per cent tariff on the electricity that it provides to 1.5 million homes and businesses in New York, Michigan and Minnesota as of Monday.

www.ctvnews.ca

Export tax as of Monday on Ontario electricity

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Meh

Trump himself has basically said he wants to destroy our economy. I know, I know…we can’t take him at his word. He’s only kidding.

I don't recall Trump saying that. Meh, I'll worry about Trump later. IMO, he back peddaled one too many times. He showed a vunerability.

Right now, with the anxiety over a trade war is rippling, we don't need our leadership running around like chicken little. Trudeau has done nothing. He sits back, bellowing his bullshit trying to keep Carney out of the news, but it's the Premiers that are carrying the ball for Canada. And he's more than content to take their credit for it.

YMMV. I'm comfortable having a different opinion than yourself.

 

[Kirkhill]

Easily dismissed but not being very intellectually honest on the subject if you ignore the sources cited. The definitions are there and are being studied by various institutions. Whether you accept that is on you.

His irrationality is not what will persist. You missed the point.

Trumpism will persist beyond him.

Donald Trump's administration, policies, government cuts, and attitudes to other countries: February 23-25, 2025 Economist/YouGov Poll | YouGov

This week’s Economist/YouGov poll covers opinions of Donald Trump's administration figures and policy proposals, government budget cuts, the state of U.S. democracy, and Trump's attitude toward world powers.

today.yougov.com

Some stuff cuts across party lines but Trump is leaking support and some of his cabinet picks (esp Musk) are not aging well.

But ....

• Majorities support Trump's decisions to designate criminal cartels as foreign terrorist organizations (69%), to ban transgender athletes from participating in women's sports (64%), and to require asylum seekers at the southern border to wait in Mexico for their immigration hearings (56%)
• Trump's policies related to LGBTQ issues generally receive more support than opposition, and many of his immigration actions are also viewed more positively than negatively

And

• 27% of Americans say that someone they know — including themselves, a family member, or another person — has been personally affected by recent cuts in government agencies and programs
• Far more Democrats (42%) than Republicans (13%) say they know someone who has been affected by reductions in government spending

....
Which brings us to this article...

Donald Trump is spectacularly right and dangerously wrong

Maga’s imperialistic overreach is jeopardising the global conservative counter-revolution

www.telegraph.co.uk

Donald Trump is neither the Messiah nor the Devil. The sycophants and the haters are equally wrong. The reality is nuanced. There is a benign Trump, and a malign Trump, and both coexist uneasily within the president’s persona.

He is spectacularly right on some issues, and dangerously wrong on others. He is an exceptional figure who will mould America for a generation, but his solipsism, loose relationship with the facts and excessive respect for strongmen is encouraging him to gamble with the fate of the free world.

When Trump is good, he is really, really good. On women’s rights, on fighting anti-Semitism, on Israel, illegal immigration, net zero, dismantling the woke madness, building a colour-blind meritocracy, free speech, tax, deregulation, spending, the war on waste and the dismantling of the managerialist Blob, his policies are inspirational.

When the malign Trump takes charge, however, he is truly terrible. He has convinced himself of a false, victim-blaming narrative on Ukraine, enjoys humiliating its president on live TV, is forcing Volodymyr Zelensky into submission by cutting off military assistance, and appears to find it difficult to see Vladimir Putin for the genocidal monster that he truly is.

Trump seems genuine in his desire to bring about peace, and Zelensky has mishandled the situation, but, to those of us forced to rely on Pax Americana, the idea that the US could walk away from the West is terrifying. China’s announcement that it is ready for “any type of war” wasn’t exactly reassuring either.

Yes, our useless welfarist governments must spend much more on defence, but Trump routinely treats his most loyal allies as vassals or inconsequential supplicants, to be snubbed or taxed or tariffed at will. Everything is transactional; friendships matter for almost nought, to the great chagrin of those of us who love America. He is blowing up his own trade deal with Canada and Mexico on the basis of bogus economics, and wants to expand America’s territory.

....

Those that saw Trump as a Fascist I can't now say that you were wrong. Mussolini's corporatism gained him power and kept him in power - shoes for barefoot school girls and the trains ran on time. Abyssinia and Albania didn't really register at home.

 

[MilEME09]

Trump isn't even using his own governments statistics to justify the drug issue according to this.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1897690994721587230

 

[HavokFour]

Trump isn't even using his own governments statistics to justify the drug issue according to this.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1897690994721587230

If true, it sounds like the President himself has fallen victim to misinformation. Likely that incredibly out of context list of quota based tariffs that has been making the rounds on social media.

https://factcheck.afp.com/doc.afp.com.36ZB6AD

 

[JLB50]

Meh

I don't recall Trump saying that. Meh, I'll worry about Trump later. IMO, he back peddaled one too many times. He showed a vunerability.

Right now, with the anxiety over a trade war is rippling, we don't need our leadership running around like chicken little. Trudeau has done nothing. He sits back, bellowing his bullshit trying to keep Carney out of the news, but it's the Premiers that are carrying the ball for Canada. And he's more than content to take their credit for it.

YMMV. I'm comfortable having a different opinion than yourself.

I agree about Trudeau not doing as much as he should. I only hope that the person who becomes our next post-election Prime Minister does A LOT MORE than Trudeau has done. Not a Doug Ford fan but I think if he were PM, he would do a lot more. Similarly, as I’ve indicated on another thread, if Wab Kinew weren’t in the NDP, he would have the potential to become a very decisive PM. You and I differ in some ways but do share some commonalities.

 

[brihard]

The fact that Trump has agreed to a months reprieve with Mexico and not Canada shows just how utterly bullshit the claim is that this has to do with fentanyl coming in. It’s such a complete lie.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

How b

Your point about the size of the tank farm has been niggling at me.

How about this? Park a tanker alongside the wharf and is it as an interim storage facility until some proper on shore storage can be installed.
There seems to be space.

View attachment 91734

How big a tanker can we bring in? Is the whole route of sufficient depth to bring in something really big?

 

[Fishbone Jones]

I don’t

The fact that Trump has agreed to a months reprieve with Mexico and not Canada shows just how utterly bullshit the claim is that this has to do with fentanyl coming in. It’s such a complete lie.

I don’t know why we haven’t countered by telling them to stop the flow of illegal aliens into Canada. And the tons of meth and cocaine. And the thousands of illegal guns. Put tariffs on them until trump complies. I don’t see why we both can't play the same stupid game.

 

[brihard]

I don’t

I don’t know why we haven’t countered by telling them to stop the flow of illegal aliens into Canada. And the tons of meth and cocaine. And the thousands of illegal guns. Put tariffs on them until trump complies. I don’t see why we both can't play the same stupid game.

Agreed that we should be flagging those issues as part of the dialogue- but since we aren’t dealing with an opposite party who’s acting in good faith, it’s moot anyway.

I did note with interest that the Mexican president, in her announcement about the month’s reprieve, mentioned the flow of guns south.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Imt

I agree about Trudeau not doing as much as he should. I only hope that the person who becomes our next post-election Prime Minister does A LOT MORE than Trudeau has done. Not a Doug Ford fan but I think if he were PM, he would do a lot more. Similarly, as I’ve indicated on another thread, if Wab Kinew weren’t in the NDP, he would have the potential to become a very decisive PM. You and I differ in some ways but do share some commonalities.

I think Poliviere will do just fine. As soon as we get the red and orange liberals out of the way.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Agreed that we should be flagging those issues as part of the dialogue- but since we aren’t dealing with an opposite party who’s acting in good faith, it’s moot anyway.

I did note with interest that the Mexican president, in her announcement about the month’s reprieve, mentioned the flow of guns south.

Perhaps a subcommittee should call obama and holder on that one?

 

[MilEME09]

I don’t

I don’t know why we haven’t countered by telling them to stop the flow of illegal aliens into Canada. And the tons of meth and cocaine. And the thousands of illegal guns. Put tariffs on them until trump complies. I don’t see why we both can't play the same stupid game.

Agreed, they started this so I would up my demands, want it to end? all Tariffs dropped and we want a 50% reduction in illegal guns, drugs and people coming into canada.

 

[lenaitch]

I have to disagree.

Montreal is Canada's original company town. It was founded at the pinch point of La Chine and the confluences of the Ottawa, the St-Laurent and the Richelieu.

York Factory was founded by a couple of French Huguenots who got fed up paying the Montreal tariffs on their furs. They didn't like the taxes the French King was charging on their work so Radisson and Groseilliers went to fellow French Huguenots taking refuge in London and convinced them to finance a new venture under the protection of the King of Scots and England.

York Factory, and the other HBC forts were built expressly to bypass Montreal and deny France the tax revenues on the fur trade. The French objected.

1763 the French lost and a new entity entered the picture. A bunch of greedy Scots allied with the French and established the Northwest Company operating out of Montreal, giving birth to the Golden Square Mile, home of the Trudeaus and McGills among others. That colony prospered and raised the Canadian banks, railways and shipping lines.

1867 and John A MacDonald knits the country together with a railway financed out of Montreal. When he "bought" Ruperts Land he directed the flow of trade through Montreal, to the benefit of the Golden Square Mile and the St Lawrence Valley. That was his National Policy.

The HBC ports competed with that flow. And were allowed to atrophy.

This was to the detriment of the Western Provinces. In the absence of alternative markets they remain what they were intended to be: colonies of Montreal. They would be the hewers of wood and drawers of water, supplying food and raw materials for the smiths and mechanics of the St Lawrence.

The HBC ports are perfectly viable ports, given cargoes of appropriate values. They were viable for the best part of 300 years. They can be viable again. Especially with the advances in technology currently available.

...

I wouldn't put down the hewers of wood and drawers of water. They pay a lot of your bills. And they can make you a lot of profits in the future which you can invest in other fields of endeavour. And fund a decent security service to protect our assets.

Not wanting to re-hash or prolong the Port of Churchill debate, but I think the viability of any site needs to stand on contemporary merits, not those from the age of freighter canoes and sail.

 

[lenaitch]

When trudeau steps up to the mic and tells the world that Trump is trying to crash our economy in order to annex us, that is scaremongering.

So when Trump says he will use "economic force" to annex Canada, he's just funnin', being misquoted or taken out of context?

And when Poilievre pushes back against the annexation claim, he's not scaremongering?

I'm confused.

 

[Jarnhamar]

Per CNBC, Lutnick is now saying - on top of prior comments about auto exemptions and agricultural exemptions - that all USMCA goods and services will probably be tariff exempt for another month.

It’s more backpedaling, but it’s backpedaling to a point of compliance with the existing lawful trade agreement. Definitely a good thing.

I don't know how badly the US can hurt Canada in terms of trade and tariffs but a Trump-lead USA can't be trusted.

If Canada was attacked by Russia tomorrow Trump would start trying to negotiate with Canada in exchange for help. Contracts, agreements, and laws mean nothing to him.

Ideally going forward we go out of our way to to business anywhere else.

 

[JLB50]

Agreed that we should be flagging those issues as part of the dialogue- but since we aren’t dealing with an opposite party who’s acting in good faith, it’s moot anyway.

I did note with interest that the Mexican president, in her announcement about the month’s reprieve, mentioned the flow of guns south.

At least she’s saying more than Governor Trudeau.

 

[Czech_pivo]

What's interesting is that once again the US stock markets are not buying what Trump is selling. They do not feel that this issue is being addressed correctly nor to they feel that a path forward with stability is occurring.

If you have it close where its at right now, at 3:07pm, the Dow at -496 and the NASDAQ at -478 points and something similar occurs tomorrow - expect Trump to be moving on Monday with some urgency in fixing this tariff f*ck-up.

The big boys are losing money and they won't sit quietly in the corner sipping their gin & tonics.