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Election 2015

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YZT580

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The charter of rights and freedoms was the worst thing that ever happened to this country: other than its author PET.  We are now effectively ruled by a handful of unelected, unaccountable judges residing in a palace on the Rideau.  At least the senate is reasonably harmless and does provide significant entertainment material on 22 minutes.  The Supremes are downright dangerous. 

 

PPCLI Guy

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YZT580 said:
The charter of rights and freedoms was the worst thing that ever happened to this country: other than its author PET.  We are now effectively ruled by a handful of unelected, unaccountable judges residing in a palace on the Rideau.  At least the senate is reasonably harmless and does provide significant entertainment material on 22 minutes.  The Supremes are downright dangerous.

Do you have any concrete examples of this egregious usurping of powers that is "downright dangerous"?
 

Lumber

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YZT580 said:
The charter of rights and freedoms was the worst thing that ever happened to this country: other than its author PET.  We are now effectively ruled by a handful of unelected, unaccountable judges residing in a palace on the Rideau.  At least the senate is reasonably harmless and does provide significant entertainment material on 22 minutes.  The Supremes are downright dangerous.

Yes, I'm going to have to go PPCLI Guy on this one and ask you to demonstrate wherefrom you obtained such colourful sputum. "Effectively ruled"? I'm sorry, is the SCC drafting laws? Establishing policy? Are they negotiating tade deals and representing our interests at international conferences?... Being able to strike down laws as unconstitutional is an important check and balance in our parliamentary democracy. The SCC's ability to do this is a powerful ability indeed, but it is narrow in scope. They can only strike down laws based on cases brought before them, and they can't make new laws, set policies, or doing anything else associated with "ruling". As for the Charter? You can certainly debate what's good and what's bad about it, and what could be changed or made better, but "the worst thing to happen to this country"? That's a reach.
 

Edward Campbell

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Maybe it's time to close this thread ...

Jeffrey Simpson, in a column which is reproduced under the Fair Dealing provisions of the Copyright Act from the Globe and Mail says a somewhat snarly farewell to Prime Minister Harper's government (6th paragraph ~ the long one) and welcomes Prime Minister designate Trudeau's "kinder, gentler start:"

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/globe-politics-insider/jeffrey-simpson-trudeaus-kinder-gentler-start/article26897401/
gam-masthead.png

Trudeau’s kinder, gentler start

SUBSCRIBERS ONLY

Jeffrey Simpson
The Globe and Mail

Published Wednesday, Oct. 21, 2015

Liberal Leader Justin Trudeau reached for one of the most beautiful and powerful phrases in the Western democratic canon Monday night. Would that Mr. Trudeau remembers the phrase every day he is prime minister.

Culling from U.S. President Abraham Lincoln’s first inaugural address, delivered on the eve of the Civil War, Mr. Trudeau said leaders need to appeal to the “better angels of our nature.”

How easy it is, in the fray of political debate and the onrush of events and decisions, and in the face of the constant criticism that attends democracy, to forget the better angels. Certainly, the better angels have been scarce for almost a decade in Canadian politics. We need them back, to help restore some confidence in our institutions, in our democracy and in ourselves as mirrored in the country’s political life.

Politics will and must always feature robust, vigorous debate. Politics is how we sort out choices and priorities in a democratic society. And since we do not all agree on these matters, we debate them endlessly and make a rough choice every four years or fewer, among ideas and leaders. But it helps protect or restore our faith in the way we make these choices if the debates are attended by some measure of restraint and dignity.

We can do debates better if the one at the top of our political institutions, the prime minister, leads with a tone of civility and respect; if he indeed calls upon the “better angels” of the country’s “nature.”

Such calls have been in short supply. Those with the fortitude for sour memories will remember the shrieking, ceaseless partisanship of the Harper government, epitomized by such ministers as John Baird and Pierre Poilievre; the bulldozing of parliamentary scrutiny with omnibus bills; the negative advertising campaigns seeking to denigrate the persona of opposition party leaders; the disdain for the media; the instructions from the Prime Minister’s Office to Conservative MPs of how to manipulate and control parliamentary committees; the flagrant and persistent misuse of taxpayer funds to support pro-government advertising; the targeting of non-governmental groups critical of those in power; the deliberate attempt to drive wedges among groups using trivial but emotional issues; the disregard for objective facts provided by scientists or civil servants; the pervasive, sickening spin surrounding every government deed; the sense of being enveloped by “enemies” largely harboured among “elite” groups; the bunker mentality; and the daily operational axiom that every action had to be part of the “permanent election campaign,” so that even the most mundane of announcements and decisions had to deliver some sort of partisan political punch.

Over time, these attitudes undermined support for the Harper government beyond its core group of backers who shared at least some of their party’s take on how to conduct itself in power. But of greater concern is the corrosive effect these attitudes might have had on citizens’ confidence in their governmental institutions.

Mr. Trudeau intuitively sensed – since he seems to be more intuitive than cerebral – that Canadians were recoiling from the way the Harper government did politics, which in turn reflected its sense of the electorate, subdivided into targeted voting blocks and best capable of being motivated by appeals to self-interest.

Without forgetting that the Liberals, too, crafted a platform with targeted groups in mind, especially the amorphous “middle class,” Mr. Trudeau also tried to create the sense that he would try to govern for a wider base of people than just the minimum needed to squeeze out victory. There was no doubt whatsoever that he attracted a list of new candidates with impressive credentials who in turn conveyed the sense of change and purpose the country wanted.

What will happen when he and they arrive in power? Will they find that the hurly-burly of political life, and the combat in the Commons, dilutes and then dashes their promise to listen, occasionally compromise and think about the whole rather than bits of the whole?

Will he and they be able – amid the turbulence of events and the whirlpool of 24-hour media reporting and instant analysis – to keep their heads cool and their partisan instincts sometimes in check, and to remember that they were given this responsibility by a country that wanted a different tone for debates, a greater respect for institutions and, most of all, an appeal to our better instincts?


I'm another of those, I'm afraid, who trusts experience over promises ... I expect little from a Liberal government except for cronyism, statism, and regular whiffs of corruption.
 

Brad Sallows

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I apparently have a fortitude for sour memories that goes back a little further than Simpson's.

The treatment of Preston Manning and Stockwell Day by Liberal attack dogs.

This series of ads.

The prejudice against Harper's innate personality which started [almost immediately] after the 2006 election with snide comments about his failure to measure up to some people's expectations of displays of public affection.

The media who made no pretense of objectivity and then whined when they were shut out.

The taxpayer-funded pro-government advertising that has been undertaken by governments at all levels for decades.

Use of parliamentary procedures and tricks also undertaken by governments at all levels for decades.

The constant fear-mongering and wedge-driving by the media and opposition political operatives over hidden agendas, Christian supremacy, right-wing extremism, etc.

Much of what the anti-Harper establishment objects to can be traced back and seen to be a reaction to their own poor sportsmanship in some cases, or simple abject hypocrisy in others.
 

Edward Campbell

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CR7iJYLWcAARxPY.jpg

Sophie Grégoire and Prime Minister designate Justin Trudeau and Laureen Harper and
Prime Minister Stephen Harper doing their civic duties today at the National War Memorial
 

Kirkhill

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Brad Sallows said:
I apparently have a fortitude for sour memories that goes back a little further than Simpson's.

The treatment of Preston Manning and Stockwell Day by Liberal attack dogs.

This series of ads.

The prejudice against Harper's innate personality which started [almost immediately] after the 2006 election with snide comments about his failure to measure up to some people's expectations of displays of public affection.

The media who made no pretense of objectivity and then whined when they were shut out.

The taxpayer-funded pro-government advertising that has been undertaken by governments at all levels for decades.

Use of parliamentary procedures and tricks also undertaken by governments at all levels for decades.

The constant fear-mongering and wedge-driving by the media and opposition political operatives over hidden agendas, Christian supremacy, right-wing extremism, etc.

Much of what the anti-Harper establishment objects to can be traced back and seen to be a reaction to their own poor sportsmanship in some cases, or simple abject hypocrisy in others.

But Brad, that all happened before Justin Bieber invented sex.

 

Altair

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E.R. Campbell said:
Maybe it's time to close this thread ...

Jeffrey Simpson, in a column which is reproduced under the Fair Dealing provisions of the Copyright Act from the Globe and Mail says a somewhat snarly farewell to Prime Minister Harper's government (6th paragraph ~ the long one) and welcomes Prime Minister designate Trudeau's "kinder, gentler start:"

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/globe-politics-insider/jeffrey-simpson-trudeaus-kinder-gentler-start/article26897401/

I'm another of those, I'm afraid, who trusts experience over promises ... I expect little from a Liberal government except for cronyism, statism, and regular whiffs of corruption.
election 2019 thread?
 

The Bread Guy

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E.R. Campbell said:
CR7iJYLWcAARxPY.jpg

Sophie Grégoire and Prime Minister designate Justin Trudeau and Laureen Harper and
Prime Minister Stephen Harper doing their civic duties today at the National War Memorial
<wild-ass, foil-hatted tea leaf reading>
Is it always "boy-girl-boy-girl", or did someone figure/say/demand the PM's won't sit next to each other?
Looky who's sitting right behind the incoming PM at a military function - sign of things to come?
</wild-ass, foil-hatted tea leaf reading>
;D
 

Altair

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Thucydides said:
Be more forward thinking. Election 2023 is where we should be focused...... ;D
election 2027 is the rubber match, should see if trudeau can outlast harper  >:D
 

Bird_Gunner45

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Altair said:
election 2027 is the rubber match, should see if trudeau can outlast harper  >:D

Trudeau ran on lofty ideals, and unlike Obama, has no one to blame but himself if he cannot achieve them as he has a majority government. A failure of the Liberal party (broken promises, corruption, etc) during this government could spell another opportunity for the NDP to move up as the Liberals would then be "just like the conservatives". I suspect that that will eb the NDP narrative for the next 4 years.
 

Lumber

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recceguy said:
Time to shut it down and move to the new thread?

What say ye all?

Agreed: "Post-Election 2015" or "How Army.ca Learned to Stop Worrying and Love Kilo and Altair"
 

YZT580

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PPCLI Guy said:
Do you have any concrete examples of this egregious usurping of powers that is "downright dangerous"?

Whether you agree or not, their rejection of the head covering law was outside of their jurisdiction.  They transposed a social tradition into a religious requirement and then rejected a law on the basis of that fictitious requirement.  The ruling vis-à-vis assisted suicide has the same potential towards abuse as the Dutch and Belgians have discovered in their countries. 

There are others but most if not all are judgmental in nature, that is they depend upon your moral viewpoint.  The one thing for sure is we no longer are a nation of moral absolutes.  Everything is now subject to interpretation and that means that the judges are the ones deciding what is right or wrong and not our elected representatives.  The judicial branch should be able to re-interpret the will of the people. 
 

Lumber

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YZT580 said:
The one thing for sure is we no longer are a nation of moral absolutes.

There are no moral absolutes, but that's definitely a conversation for another thread that has the potential to be as bad as the thread on Gun Control.
 
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