CAN-USA Tariff Strife (split from various pol threads)

[The Bread Guy]

I'm pretty sure the last time I listens to a Mansbridge PC he was alone. I could be wrong ...

He also does solo hits, which I don't watch at all - he sounds like he likes the sound of his voice enough when he has guests.

... Hebert I don't mind but I find she lacks the energy of a Kapelos ...

Very true, but Hebert, agree or disagree with her assessments, has going-way-back experience that Kapelos doesn't have as much of (yet, anyway). And she uses her experience in a way that's not quite as ... stodgy? ... as when the experienced guys go at it.

 

[Halifax Tar]

Very true, but Hebert, agree or disagree with her assessments, has going-way-back experience that Kapelos doesn't have as much of (yet, anyway). And she uses her experience in a way that's not quite as ... stodgy? ... as when the experienced guys go at it.

No debating that. Im pretty sure Hebert could be Kapelos' memaw.

 

[MrWhyt]

These irrelevant snipes are amusing.

He’s now #47 after the greatest come back in political history. He has fundamentally shifted the priorities of the west. He has every world organization and country waiting nervously to hear what he says or does next. This is all true whether you like him or not.

And he still doesn't know what a tariff is, whether you like him or not.

 

[Remius]

And he still doesn't know what a tariff is, whether you like him or not.

Oh he does. A good chunk of his followers don’t. Just the way he likes it.

 

[MrWhyt]

Oh he does. A good chunk of his followers don’t. Just the way he likes it.

that's the thing either:
A: he truly doesn't know and nobody has corrected him
2: He truly doesn't know, people have tried to correct him and he hasn't learned
III: He does know and thinks his followers are too stupid to look it up and learn for themselves.

 

[Jarnhamar]

You guys rekon the average Canadian knows what they are?

 

[Remius]

You guys rekon the average Canadian knows what they are?

Likely not. But no one here is telling Canadians that tariffs are something they are not.

 

[MrWhyt]

You guys rekon the average Canadian knows what they are?

i learned about them in jr high 30+ years ago. they're not a complicated idea:

tariff: a tax on imported goods. Paid by the importer.

example: suppose there is 25% tariff on steel imported from china. If I buy $100M of steel from a company in china, i pay that company $100M and then pay the government $25M when the steel enters the country.

The "paid by the importer" part is the part that trump doesn't seem to understand. So when you see him talking about the billions in tariffs they got from china and will get in the future you know he's talking out of his ass.

 

[Remius]

i learned about them in jr high 30+ years ago. they're not a complicated idea:

tariff: a tax on imported goods. Paid by the importer.

example: suppose there is 25% tariff on steel imported from china. If I buy $100M of steel from a company in china, i pay that company $100M and then pay the government $25M when the steel enters the country.

The "paid by the importer" part is the part that trump doesn't seem to understand. So when you see him talking about the billions in tariffs they got from china and will get in the future you know he's talking out of his ass.

Same. In grade 7. The treaty of reciprocity of 1854. I remember “Treaty of Reciprocity” but I had to look up the year lol.

Not sure how many would remember that but I liked history in school.

I also remember taking algebra and calculus but don’t ask me how to do that today.

 

[GR66]

i learned about them in jr high 30+ years ago. they're not a complicated idea:

tariff: a tax on imported goods. Paid by the importer.

example: suppose there is 25% tariff on steel imported from china. If I buy $100M of steel from a company in china, i pay that company $100M and then pay the government $25M when the steel enters the country.

The "paid by the importer" part is the part that trump doesn't seem to understand. So when you see him talking about the billions in tariffs they got from china and will get in the future you know he's talking out of his ass.

I think he knows. If you listen to him he says he'll take the tariffs that are earned on the imports and use them to invest in American manufacturing.

To take your steel import example, yes the company importing the steel will have to pay an additional $25M for the steel they import from China, but Trump intends to then use that $25M to invest in and/or subsidize the US steel industry with the goal that US industry with that investment will become competitive enough that the same importer will eventually be able to buy the same steel from a US supplier for the same or lower price than from the Chinese supplier.

If anyone thinks Trump sees Canadian auto parts for example any differently than Chinese steel then I fear you are greatly mistaken. I think he's fully willing to go all in on a 25% tariff on Canadian imports because it's his intention that all of the production currently taking place in Ontario will be replaced by producers in the US...with the tariffs collected on the Canadian-built parts subsidizing the relocation.

 

[Kirkhill]

My one bit of advice: stop thinking of Trump as an idiot and his 75 million supporters as deplorables.

They have a different plan than the one we are used to but we would do better to assume they have a plan and are working the plan.

200 or so executive orders in the first week doesn't feel like a Mel Brooks movie.

 

[Jarnhamar]

Likely not. But no one here is telling Canadians that tariffs are something they are not.

That's true; we get told things like the budget will balance itself and we believe it heh.

Trump being disingenuous with his explanations seems part and parcel for him.

i learned about them in jr high 30+ years ago. they're not a complicated idea:

Okay. Trump is a multi billionaire, owner of multiple companies, successful tax evader, Trump Organization owner, employer of 20,000+ people, and twice-president. Are you really confident he doesn't understand these non-complicated tariffs you learned 30 years ago in jr high?

 

[MrWhyt]

Are you really confident he doesn't understand these non-complicated tariffs you learned 30 years ago in jr high?

well then he thinks his followers are idiots who don't know what tariffs are. He has consistently claimed that CHINA paid the US billions in tariffs. Tariffs are paid by the importer, china did not pay any tariffs. American companies paid the tariffs and passed the increased cost down to american consumers.

 

[Jarnhamar]

well then he thinks his followers are idiots who don't know what tariffs are. He has consistently claimed that CHINA paid the US billions in tariffs. Tariffs are paid by the importer, china did not pay any tariffs. American companies paid the tariffs and passed the increased cost down to american consumers.

I don't know how tariffs work off the top of my head. I'm sure I could take a few minutes and google it but I'll take your word for it.
I do know the threat of these tariffs kicked out governments ass into panic mode high gear. Rather comical IMO.

I'm going to venture US citizens are less concerned about Canadian tariffs than we are of American ones.

I don't really see it as a gotchya moment against Trump. His supporters care about being lied to as much as our own leader's base care. Which is zero.

 

[MrWhyt]

I don't really see it as a gotchya moment against Trump. His supporters care about being lied to as much as our own leader's base care. Which is zero.

so you admit he's lying to them

 

[GR66]

so you admit he's lying to them

Or to phrase it another way, he's telling them what they want to hear.

We can argue the veracity of his various claims or we can work on dealing with the impact of them. I'm thinking time spent on the latter will be much more productive.

 

[Jarnhamar]

so you admit he's lying to them

I have no idea, probably yes.

 

[Kirkhill]

well then he thinks his followers are idiots who don't know what tariffs are. He has consistently claimed that CHINA paid the US billions in tariffs. Tariffs are paid by the importer, china did not pay any tariffs. American companies paid the tariffs and passed the increased cost down to american consumers.

It kind of depends on how much strength you believe the market has.

If the imported item is scarce and demand is high then the supplier gets to set the price and yes, indeed, the importer absorbs the cost of the tariff and sends it to his government. Just the same way he would send his income tax or corporate tax.

If the imported item has competition and demand is low then the supplier will have to lower the price to the importer so that the importer can still make a profit while sending the tariff to his government.

....

Canada is not for sale ball caps made in China don't have much competition. None domestically. China can pretty much charge what it likes.
WCS oil from Alberta has lots of competition in the US, especially if Trump reopens all the coal mines. Canada will sell at whatever the market will bear.

...

Tariffs are a means of regulating trade to the benefit of the importing nation. It impacts on the ability of a nation to compete, to pay its bills, to keep its people employed.

It is a lever to manage the free market, just as tax policy is.

 

[The Bread Guy]

Pierre Poilievre says he would retaliate against Trump tariffs, reduce inter-province trade barriers if elected

Conservative Leader Pierre Poilievre says he would retaliate against U.S. tariffs if he was elected prime minister, potentially matching them dollar for dollar.

www.ctvnews.ca

A U.S. (generally conservative) media take on the same interview ...

Conservative Canadian PM hopeful Pierre Poilievre vows US will be ‘hit hard’ over Trump’s tariffs if he’s elected to replace Trudeau

“It has to hit hard. We have to be very pinpoint and surgical,” said Poilievre, who has drawn comparisons to President Trump.

nypost.com

 

[The Bread Guy]

Excellent edition

A lot of people will hear things said on these forums for some time

P.S. - Tempted to make them "Build the Pipelines - Fuck the Moose" t-shirts after this one