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CAN-USA Tariff Strife (split from various pol threads)

Minister Anand, in a CTV interview, has promised strong retaliatory measures against the U.S. if tariffs go forward. She didn’t mince words; she’s talking openly about a “trade war”, and said “If pushed, our response will be the single largest trade blow the U.S. economy has ever endured”. Sounds like nothing is off the table.


I wasn’t sure which thread to put this in; might be that a separate Canada - US relations thread might be useful going forward to capture relevant material from both sides? Or maybe roll it into and rename the border integrity thread I started, and move that to Global Politics?
 
... I wasn’t sure which thread to put this in; might be that a separate Canada - US relations thread might be useful going forward to capture relevant material from both sides? Or maybe roll it into and rename the border integrity thread I started, and move that to Global Politics?
The border integrity tread strikes me more as a "politics of security" thread, but you make a good case.

I'll start creating a "CAN-USA 2025 Tariff Strife" thread within the Canadian Politics area, pulling this in as well as a lot of tariff-specific stuff from the Annexation thread.

Thanks - please stand by ....

Army.ca Staff
 
“If pushed, our response will be the single largest trade blow the U.S. economy has ever endured”. Sounds like nothing is off the table.
Is this a hollow threat or does Canada actually have the capability of "landing a blow"?
 
Is this a hollow threat or does Canada actually have the capability of "landing a blow"?
Not sure. Last NAFTA negotiations Canada did strike back effectively. No clue what this blow would be now.
 
Is this a hollow threat or does Canada actually have the capability of "landing a blow"?
We cannot devastate their economy as they can ours, but we can certainly increase costs on a lot of goods and services and hurt US businesses in a lot of areas. We're still their largest export destination.

A lot of this comes down to what does Trump actually want, what would cause him pain versus reward, what would affect his cost benefit analysis?

There are likely additional lawyers to this that we aren’t necessarily seeing.
 
Canada's options:

Stop buying stuff we need and want from the US.
Stop selling stuff that finances our economy.
Sell stuff are a higher price which will result in us not selling stuff that finances our economy.

1737312076232.png
 
Is this a hollow threat or does Canada actually have the capability of "landing a blow"?
The scale of our trade with the US definitely gives us the capability of "landing a blow" but the question is do we really WANT to land a blow?

From Google's "AI Overview":
Canada is the largest export market for 34–36 U.S. states. Canada and the United States are each other's largest export markets, and this trade relationship supports millions of jobs in both countries.

Explanation
  • In 2022, the U.S. exported nearly $429 billion in goods and services to Canada.

  • Canada is the top export market for more than 30 U.S. states.

  • Canada is the primary or secondary export market for 45 U.S. states.

  • Michigan has been Canada's top trading partner among U.S. states since 1990.

  • The U.S. and Canada have the most comprehensive trading relationship in the world.

  • Canada is the largest foreign supplier of energy to the U.S.
Clearly we have the economic capability of "landing a blow" in a trade war with the United States.

Is a "war" of any type what we really want with our largest trading partner and the major global superpower? The immediate effects of Trump's planned tariffs will hit hard on both sides of the border and will be quite inflationary for the Americans. Those negative effects when they start hitting US companies, employees and consumers that rely on products and materials coming from Canada will be blamed on Trump and his tariff policy.

Despite Trump's recent rhetoric about Canada taking advantage of the US most Americans think generally positively about Canada and Canadians (when they think about us at all). If however we continue with our aggressive rhetoric and enter a tit-for-tat trade war with the United States then economic nationalism will kick in and Canada will be seen as the cause of their economic pain.

While economic retaliation may result in an eventual resolution to the tariff dispute the likely long term outcome will be that Americans will see how much their economy is at risk from the actions of a (potentially) hostile Canadian government and the natural response by the US will be to eliminate those vulnerabilities by replacing the existing trade links with Canada by on-shoring their supply chains.

Canada is not like Mexico where a large wage gap with the US means that US companies would find it difficult to on-shore Mexican products without significantly increasing their cost. Wages and production costs are similar in Canada and the US so it's certainly not impossible for the US for example to on-shore all of the automotive industry production that currently happens in Canada.

Most of the fuel used in the US midwest refineries comes from Canada and those refineries are set up to run on the heavy crude that Canada produces rather then the light crude produced in Texas. Cutting off Canadian oil exports to the US (or raising the price) would have a significant impact on the price of gasoline in the US heartland. While a US tariff caused increase in prices (from Trump's tariffs) would create political pressure from within the US to change the policy, the effect of Canadian caused price increases may see a push to re-tool the Midwest refineries to use Texas light crude (a significant portion of which is currently exported to countries with refineries designed to use it) in order to ensure American energy security. The ultimate impact for Canada would be that we would potentially lose our largest (and easiest to access) energy export market. The same thing might happen with the electrical grid. Currently they are highly interconnected North to South but threaten the US's energy security and they will be encouraged to nationalize by increasing domestic generation capacity and breaking/minimizing the cross border connections.


In my opinion we need to see Trump as an immediate but ultimately short term (4 year) threat. We need to manage that threat in such a way that we are not also potentially crippling ourselves economically in the long term. We can't change our Geography. Like it our not our future is tied to our southern neighbour. We need to manage that relationship in such a way that we do not damage it and threatening to impose economic hardship on our most important neighbour and trading partner is not a smart move.
 
Not sure. Last NAFTA negotiations Canada did strike back effectively. No clue what this blow would be now.

Effectively? How is that qualified?

If you look over the major concessions Canada made to the US, it doesn’t seem as Canada kept little to anything unscathed that existed in NAFTA.

To wit:
 
Targeted tariffs and pressure seems to have been effective.

In keeping things less bad/worse than they could have been?

And yet the US seems to think they got a raw deal out of that.

That’s Negotiation 101. All sides always feel they missed out on something. The majority of key items in USMCA, Canada gave something up, relative to NAFTA. If someone is going for the “we got a good deal” position, I’d like to see them at least qualify a “it could have been [this] bad!”
 
Haven't seen these shared elsewhere, so here's a bit more on the general defensive plan.
Looks like 3 tiers (bits rom NYT)
1737317915504.png
1737317945619.png
Screenshot 2025-01-19 151940.jpg
1737318080505.png

Also, this from Ontario
Screenshot 2025-01-19 152732.jpg
More from the Ontario info-machine:
 
While we have been locking up hydrocarbons, especially LNG terminals ....

North America​

[edit]
Under construction:
  • Plaquemines opened 2024
  • Corpus Christie Stage III - IOC March 2025
  • Golden Pass - IOC December 2025
  • Rio Grande - IOC 2026
  • Port Arthur - IOC 2026/28
  • LNG Canada (Kitimat) - IOC 2025
  • Woodfibre LNG (Squamish) - IOC 2027
  • Cedar LNG (Kitimat) - IOC 2029
  • Fast LNG Altamira FLNG2 - export started 2024
  • Energia Costa Azul - IOC 2025
And the Aussies have built 10 since 1989 with 7 or 8 currently in production.
 
If Ottawa is waiting for Trump to make the first move, that could be a good thing.

Especially if Trump decides to wait until after our election.

I don't get a warm fuzzy having trudeau in charge of this, along with Notley and Charest as part of that team.

I wouldn't be surprised to see trudeau fuck this up royally, on purpose and in spite, as a going away gift to us.

Trump doesn't want to deal with trudeau or anyone connected to him. He sees them as two faced, whiney idiots and he's not wrong.
 
I'll bet that the three phase proposal coming out of the States now is closer to the reality.

I believe that Trump is committed to putting tariffs back on the table as a legitimate tool for managing trade and raising revenue.
I also believe that talking about a 25% tariff on Canada, prior to becoming the President, is having his desired effect - getting everybody jittery.
25% tariff on Canada is a more effective threat to Europe than the prospect of 60% on China.

I think that a baseline 10% tariff, across the board and employed as a budgeting tool, would be about right.

I also think that a sliding scale from 0% to 25% would get the desired reactions from his trading partners.

In other words, 25% imposed immediately to take effect if and when. Unless we do the other thing, in which case the rate will drop down to the Most Favoured Nation rate (something in the 0-10 range).
 
If Ottawa is waiting for Trump to make the first move, that could be a good thing.
That would actually make sense, thereby giving it the kiss of death :)
Especially if Trump decides to wait until after our election.
I don't think he's going to wait anywhere near that long, but he does have a number of balls he says will be in the air, so we'll see -- I'd be happy to be wrong.
 
I find this to be a much more sensible solution to dealing with Trump than attempting a dollar for dollar trade war in which we suffer terribly. Way to go, Premier Smith

 
I find this to be a much more sensible solution to dealing with Trump than attempting a dollar for dollar trade war in which we suffer terribly. Way to go, Premier Smith

Looks like a damage control tour with friendly media.
 
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