CAN-USA Tariff Strife (split from various pol threads)

[Jarnhamar]

Everyone lining up for "trade war" reminds me of every other stupid foolish imbecilic person who joined in a rush to conflict somewhere,

Posturing Reddit has gotten pretty humorous.

 

[RangerRay]

Teddy Roosevelt on steroids.

Teddy Roosevelt got rid of the robber baron oligopoly. Trump is inviting them in.

 

[brihard]

As I've written, we need calm people calling the shots. Canada's sovereignty isn't in imminent danger - we choose how to respond. The US isn't in imminent danger of becoming some authoritarian playground. People who didn't and don't support Trump don't deserve to be dragged into this, and that's a large number of people even in states whose EC votes went to Trump. Nor does everyone who voted for Trump necessarily support this particular thing right now - it's unavoidably part of the package they voted for because they could only choose between two packages, but that doesn't mean that their support in favour of us on this issue has to be yielded unfought due to ham-fisted emotionally-driven lackwit unimaginative economically ruinous self-destructive responses by people who can't hear Trump talk nonsense about 51st states without their hind brains taking over and who think that a prospective recession on par with recessions we've previously endured is suddenly an existential crisis. I can see our future US licence plate : Canada, the Chicken Little State.

Everyone lining up for "trade war" reminds me of every other stupid foolish imbecilic person who joined in a rush to conflict somewhere, sometime, because their patriotic sensibilities and feelings were hurt, and also the litany of self-serving ridiculous mostly abstract excuses they offered to justify their belligerent rush to seek the worst possible outcomes.

I’m not calling the shots, my opinion and words are forceful but I am very calm. I’m simply not blithely unaware of global context or of history, nor am I in denial about the sort of individual we’re dealing with here and what he will and won’t respond to.

Populations suffer for the actions of their leaders. That’s another recurring theme here. Americans as a whole elected Trump. There is no way to precisely limit repercussions to those who specifically voted for him. Targeting constituencies where he has the most support is the best we can do.

Americans can pressure their government to smarten up. They can do it now, they can do it in the midterms, whatever. They don’t get to be immune from reciprocal economic pressure because of their political leadership’s stupid choices.

 

[Halifax Tar]

This is what a real leader sounds like
(Cue the upsets) Turn volume up a bit, its quiet

Just finished watching that. He was impressive.

I do think he needs to knock it off a big with the jinggos and rhymes.

Other than that I'm more than happy with his approach.

Biases admitted.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

I have a question
Lots of people saying fuck Trump, let's piss him off with our own tariffs. Ignore his wishes to stop fentanyl and terrorists going south from here. We can afford to live a little tighter and cheaper to make our point.
Really? How about all those people at rock bottom, living in trudeauvilles already? How about those who are just on the edge, giving up meals to buy gas for their 2-3 jobs, do they now move to the trudeauvilles? Those sites are about to suffer a big increase in residents.
It's nice to sit warm and dry in our homes, with our great job or retirement keeping us that way. A huge amount of Canadians don't have these advantages. And here is trudeau changing his emergency funding plan from 'pandemic' to 'tariff war' and is about to throw millions and millions back into the ether, where it will disappear without helping Canadians again. I'll bet we have the same companies and individuals bilking the system again. There was no repercussions for cheating last time, how many millions will go missing again.

Trudeau's plan and implementation will go the same ham fisted, irresponsible, bank breaking way his pandemic action did. All he did was dust the last solution off and change the cover page.

This is not the way out of this. Our freeloader status has been called out and our only response is to stick out our tongue and blow raspberries at America.

Trudeau loves this chaos. He's not going to fix it. Him, Carney, et al need this crisis to grow so they can keep scaring Canadians and terrorizing them to stay in line and depend on liberal solutions.

Where is the bipartisan commission? Or are we going to let the liberals drive the train without input from the opposition. Or be content to let them and the orange liberals drive it over a cliff?

Who cares how much hardship we can bring to the Americans? How it will affect them? Worry about Canadians. This is not a war. This is not spiteful. Trump is doing what he thinks best for his country and citizens, even if we think it's personal. It's a negotiation. Trump has thrown his first card, now we need to see how low he will go and to find out where our common ground is so we can grow that.

Trudeau is as useless, in this, as tits on a bull.

 

[Remius]

For those who have lost the plot and are trying to bury this problem in the pages of an economics textbook, here’s Trump’s latest as of this morning:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1886052836661932298

I will keep saying this: this is not a conventional problem of economics between rational actors. This is a facade sitting in front of the ‘will to power’ psychology of an 1800s style robber baron who unfortunately leads the most powerful country in the world and who would see it as a feather in his cap if he were to succesfully annex us during his time in power.

Are people getting it yet?

They aren’t, they still think this is about the border or some vendetta against Trudeau. It isn’t and they are not getting it.

 

[brihard]

I have a question
Lots of people saying fuck Trump, let's piss him off with our own tariffs. Ignore his wishes to stop fentanyl and terrorists going south from here.

Absolutely nobody here is saying that. Maybe you’re reading that elsewhere but you certainly aren’t on army.ca.

We can afford to live a little tighter and cheaper to make our point.
Really? How about all those people at rock bottom, living in trudeauvilles already? How about those who are just on the edge, giving up meals to buy gas for their 2-3 jobs, do they now move to the trudeauvilles? Those sites are about to suffer a big increase in residents.
It's nice to sit warm and dry in our homes, with our great job or retirement keeping us that way. A huge amount of Canadians don't have these advantages. And here is trudeau changing his emergency funding plan from 'pandemic' to 'tariff war' and is about to throw millions and millions back into the ether, where it will disappear without helping Canadians again. I'll bet we have the same companies and individuals bilking the system again. There was no repercussions for cheating last time, how many millions will go missing again.

Trudeau's plan and implementation will go the same ham fisted, irresponsible, bank breaking way his pandemic action did. All he did was dust the last solution off and change the cover page.

This is not the way out of this. Our freeloader status has been called out and our only response is to stick out our tongue and blow raspberries at America.

Trudeau loves this chaos. He's not going to fix it. Him, Carney, et al need this crisis to grow so they can keep scaring Canadians and terrorizing them to stay in line and depend on liberal solutions.

Where is the bipartisan commission? Or are we going to let the liberals drive the train without input from the opposition. Or be content to let them and the orange liberals drive it over a cliff?

I accept that you’re concerned about economic impacts and job losses. You live in a part of Ontario heavily involved in the auto sector, where a whole ton of jobs are about to be lost because of Trump’s tariffs.

Do you place any responsibility for what’s about to happen on Trump for violating the existing trade treaty and imposing 25% tariffs on most of our economic sectors? Or are you giving him a freebie on his tariffs but condemning ours in response?

 

[MilEME09]

I have a question
Lots of people saying fuck Trump, let's piss him off with our own tariffs. Ignore his wishes to stop fentanyl and terrorists going south from here. We can afford to live a little tighter and cheaper to make our point.
Really? How about all those people at rock bottom, living in trudeauvilles already? How about those who are just on the edge, giving up meals to buy gas for their 2-3 jobs, do they now move to the trudeauvilles? Those sites are about to suffer a big increase in residents.
It's nice to sit warm and dry in our homes, with our great job or retirement keeping us that way. A huge amount of Canadians don't have these advantages. And here is trudeau changing his emergency funding plan from 'pandemic' to 'tariff war' and is about to throw millions and millions back into the ether, where it will disappear without helping Canadians again. I'll bet we have the same companies and individuals bilking the system again. There was no repercussions for cheating last time, how many millions will go missing again.

Trudeau's plan and implementation will go the same ham fisted, irresponsible, bank breaking way his pandemic action did. All he did was dust the last solution off and change the cover page.

This is not the way out of this. Our freeloader status has been called out and our only response is to stick out our tongue and blow raspberries at America.

Trudeau loves this chaos. He's not going to fix it. Him, Carney, et al need this crisis to grow so they can keep scaring Canadians and terrorizing them to stay in line and depend on liberal solutions.

Where is the bipartisan commission? Or are we going to let the liberals drive the train without input from the opposition. Or be content to let them and the orange liberals drive it over a cliff?

Who cares how much hardship we can bring to the Americans? How it will affect them? Worry about Canadians. This is not a war. This is not spiteful. Trump is doing what he thinks best for his country and citizens, even if we think it's personal. It's a negotiation. Trump has thrown his first card, now we need to see how low he will go and to find out where our common ground is so we can grow that.

Trudeau is as useless, in this, as tits on a bull.

Except we aren't ignoring the border. The problem is that the fentanyl and immigration issue was a cover so he could by pass congress and using an emergency measure to pursue his economic policy. He has already stated there was nothing we could do to avoid tariffs, Trudeau tried calling him multiple times since Jan 20 and has been scoffed. We need to wake up and realize this was never about the border. This is his idea of America first by making everything non American more expensive. People need to realize it isn't a joke any more about 51st state, or invading Greenland.

We can't hit back without taking some pain our selves but that doesn't mean we don't do it. If we want to go nuclear we can, the US doesn't refine nickel, they send it all to Sudbury to be refined then shipped back, hit that, the vast majority of aluminum America needs comes from Canada, hit that.

Many other areas we can bring America to the table. Already we have over 40 members of congress signing a letter to remove the tariffs on canada.

 

[brihard]

Except we aren't ignoring the border. The problem is that the fentanyl and immigration issue was a cover so he could by pass congress and using an emergency measure to pursue his economic policy. He has already stated there was nothing we could do to avoid tariffs, Trudeau tried calling him multiple times since Jan 20 and has been scoffed. We need to wake up and realize this was never about the border. This is his idea of America first by making everything non American more expensive. People need to realize it isn't a joke any more about 51st state, or invading Greenland.

Yup, all of this. It’s a cover so he can absorb and acquire. He is not a statesman, he’s an acquisitive and exploitative businessman who avoids honouring his own reciprocal obligations. He has to be viewed with cognizance of that.

We can't hit back without taking some pain our selves but that doesn't mean we don't do it. If we want to go nuclear we can, the US doesn't refine nickel, they send it all to Sudbury to be refined then shipped back, hit that, the vast majority of aluminum America needs comes from Canada, hit that.

So some of this is where they already hit themselves. Whether we need to turn it up or not from our end depends on whether we can hit the target dollar value with other goods that have less impact on our own industry. But yes, knowing that building metal refineries is a lengthy process, it should be on the table as an option if in fact they cannot easily substitute.

Many other areas we can bring America to the table. Already we have over 40 members of congress signing a letter to remove the tariffs on canada.

Are any of them Republicans? Politically we need to force a divide within his own party on this, break the consensus.

 

[QV]

There are certainly some long winded and emotionally charged posts here. Now if only those calling for economic war on the USA had put out as much energy on the CCP issues, corruption inside our country, and assault on western O&G industry.

 

[Remius]

There are certainly some long winded and emotionally charged posts here. Now if only those calling for economic war on the USA had put out as much energy on the CCP issues, corruption inside our country, and assault on western O&G industry.

some long winded Maga before country types trying to rationalize what trump is doing revealing their true colours as well. You’ve already stated your preference to becoming annexed and pro Russia stances. Your concern about China being an issue is about as genuine as your concern for Canada QV.

 

[ArmyRick]

There are certainly some long winded and emotionally charged posts here. Now if only those calling for economic war on the USA had put out as much energy on the CCP issues, corruption inside our country, and assault on western O&G industry.

Yup. 100%

 

[QV]

some long winded Maga before country types trying to rationalize what trump is doing revealing their true colours as well. You’ve already stated your preference to becoming annexed and pro Russia stances. Your concern about China being an issue is about as genuine as your concern for Canada QV.

You have a history of making ad hominem accusations like this anytime people point out facts you don’t like. Enjoy the ride!

 

[brihard]

There are certainly some long winded and emotionally charged posts here. Now if only those calling for economic war on the USA had put out as much energy on the CCP issues, corruption inside our country, and assault on western O&G industry.

When you have nothing of value to say on the subject, attack the people talking about it. Very definition of ad hominem, but it still leaves you with nothing of value to contribute.

Personally I’m comfortable with my posts, words, investments and actions as applicable on any of those subjects. You’re only going to have what I’ve spoken about here to work with, though, sorry.

 

[Kirkhill]

A couple of ideas

1 Join the JEF Countries (JEF is allied with Poland, Czechia and Ukraine)



Trump wants to secure the Arctic. JEF is a NATO group that aims for that same goal. And it includes Denmark and Greenland.

The UK's involvement might cause AUKUS and FivEyes some pause. The rest of the world, places like Italy, Japan, South Korea and Taiwan might also have to rethink some relations.

I leave the EU outside of JEF as an unknown factor.

2 Chase investment as per the Globe and Mail.

Globe editorial: In Trump’s tariff war, Canada must fight for investment capital

The federal Liberals are preparing a sequel to their pandemic bailout. Rather than freezing Canada’s economy in place, Ottawa should be aiming to speed its transformation

www.theglobeandmail.com

If Canada matches the U.S. measure dollar for dollar, Ottawa could see $80-billion to $100-billion in tariff revenue.

Ottawa should consider giving the provinces a portion of its windfall – but at the price of each premier signing on to an internal free-trade agreement.

Ottawa could take a bold measure that would leapfrog ahead of the Americans in the competition for capital: allow for the immediate expensing of any dollar invested in Canada. That measure would also mean scrapping the boutique exemptions that the Liberals have built up in a misguided attempt to force investment to flow to their favoured corners of the economy. Broader tax reform, focused on creating a Canadian investing advantage, should follow.

Trade conflict with an increasingly protectionist United States promises to last years. The immediate threat of a 25-per-cent tariff may dissipate quickly. But the Trump administration is still proceeding with a broader trade review that is predicated on a universal tariff of 10 per cent.

Those effects will be anything but temporary; they promise to be transformative. Ottawa should be focusing on accelerating the pace of adjustment, not freezing the economy in place with subsidies.

 

[Remius]

You have a history of making ad hominem accusations like this anytime people point out facts you don’t like. Enjoy the ride!

Your posting history supports everything I claimed. I stand by my opinion of your concern for Canada. It isn’t genuine.

 

[QV]

When you have nothing of value to say on the subject, attack the people talking about it. Very definition of ad hominem, but it still leaves you with nothing of value to contribute.

Personally I’m comfortable with my posts, words, investments and actions as applicable on any of those subjects. You’re only going to have what I’ve spoken about here to work with, though, sorry.

I’ve said plenty. I’m just enjoying some of the hysterical posts here today. If only we had this kind of emotion from you lot when Trudeau was putting in barriers to O&G exports, wrecking the CAF, courting the CCP, or any other general corruptness.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

some long winded Maga before country types trying to rationalize what trump is doing revealing their true colours as well. You’ve already stated your preference to becoming annexed and pro Russia stances. Your concern about China being an issue is about as genuine as your concern for Canada QV.

Careful, you're getting close to calling people disloyal again, solely based on their opinion.

And yours.

Sounds like you're writing trudeau's speeches, "They're all misogynist, racist, science hating, low intelligent people. Now we can add traitor to their faults."

It's not that they are defending Trump. It's simply that they are taking a world view of things and analyzing all the angles. Rather than standing on on the border in their plaid tuxedo and waving their hockey stick. Yelling 'I am Canadian.' Instead of 'Wolverines'

 

[Fabius]

If we were to make the assumption that President Trumps aim and intent of tariffs is territorial acquisition, So What?
What actions does Canada take that are fully within our control? How are they different than if President Trumps aim and intent is the US economy?

 

[Halifax Tar]

Careful, you're getting close to calling people disloyal again, solely based on their opinion.

Again ?