CAN-USA Tariff Strife (split from various pol threads)

[brihard]

Despite me cheering on Ford on this not sure that is wise. Trump has a made up emergency excuse to impose tariffs we don’t want to give him real reasons to take further steps.

Concur. I spoke to this yesterday evening. Nothing that would encourage invocation of the term ‘blockade’.

 

[lenaitch]

We should slowly start cutting off the power we supply to the eastern seaboard. Do something like a hour a day (with lots of warning as to when it is happening), slowly extending the amount of time it takes.

We would have to be careful with that though, they might actually see that as a existential threat.

Be careful what you wish for. It seems in 2024 we, particularly BC and Quebec, were doing a lot more importing than exporting. BC cites lack of precipitation; it's not clear if Quebec is the same reason.

(you can slides the scale in the upper right to change years)

CER – Market Snapshot: Electricity trade trends affected by recent low precipitation

Market Snapshot: Electricity trade trends affected by recent low precipitation

www.cer-rec.gc.ca

 

[lenaitch]

The Trump admin has adopted Russia’s firehose of excrement in the information domain. They spray a whole lot of conflicting messages and let the useful idiots propagate personal favourites.

Team Trump does not care about “team red” nor “team blue” in Canada. He has even made disparaging comments of both party leaders, so if you think colour of government is a factor, you are going to be disappointed with the results of any change.

The US has no legitimate grievance to avenge in Canada. So the tariffs are not revenge. They are bullying, and an effort to exert/demonstrate US dominance over smaller countries. This is also a testing the waters phase to see how much they can get away with. Will the international community rally, or can he pick apart targets piecemeal?

And with Trump the message is a moving target. Sometimes it's in retaliation for the 'massive flow of illegal drugs and immigrants', sometimes it's military spending, and sometimes it's simply a way to raise revenue so he can cut taxes, and all the appeasements we are trying to do are irrelevant.

 

[brihard]

Premier Doug Ford has announced that Ontario will be blocking US companies out of bidding on provincial contracts, potentially a loss of $10b a year in business (something something trade balance). He’s also ‘ripping up’ Ontario’s $100m contract with Elon Musk’s Starlink to provide satellite internet to more remote parts of Ontario.

Ontario pausing retaliatory measures after tariffs postponed, Doug Ford says

Ontario Premier Doug Ford says the province is pausing a suite of retaliatory measures that it was set to begin implementing following an 11th hour postponement of U.S. tariffs.

www.ctvnews.ca

 

[Czech_pivo]

He’s basically been Trudeau’s finance whisperer for some time. He is committed to offshoring energy, he is committed to the climate cult. He would be a disaster.

Sorry, I'm referring to him being the caliber of a Min of Fin over a PM. PM would be the case of being promoted 1 level higher than your abilities.
I do not agree with the vast majority of his CDN public policies but in terms of understanding the responsibilities and role of a Min of Fin he would be excellent. The 'right' PM would keep him in line and ensure that he followed the economy policies as directed by the PM.
Just because one doesn't agree with his economic policies (which I don't) does not mean that he would not be a good Min of Fin. I tend to give credit where credit is due, regardless if I agree with the political or economic policy. Hence my belief that Paul Martin Jr was an excellent Min of Fin, I may not agree with a majority of the policies that he enacted but I do believe that he did his job very very well and had the respect of the business markets - which matters an awful lot.

 

[Czech_pivo]

Despite me cheering on Ford on this not sure that is wise. Trump has a made up emergency excuse to impose tariffs we don’t want to give him real reasons to take further steps.

Would NOT be a good idea - Americans would take that as a direct threat to their economic security and the repercussions on us would be swift and far reaching.

 

[Quirky]

He’s basically been Trudeau’s finance whisperer for some time. He is committed to offshoring energy, he is committed to the climate cult. He would be a disaster.

That's what Canadians want. Run this country off the fiscal cliff while leaving all our natural resources in the ground.

 

[YZT580]

Just as a side note, Gorbachev was Minister of Agriculture in the old SU before becoming numéro uno.
Things in the old didn’t turn out to well for him….

I wouldn't say that. He didn't fall out of a window....

 

[YZT580]

That's what Canadians want. Run this country off the fiscal cliff while leaving all our natural resources in the ground.

I beg to differ. If that was what Canadians really wanted Trudeau would not have handed in his notice and PP would not be sitting at the top of the polls. All most Canadians simply wanted was their 2 weeks at the cottage/campground, free medicare, dental or whatever as promised by their MP and presented by the TorStar as being their entitlement. They were promised a green utopia and didn't really notice that it was Alberta's oil our natural resources that was paying for it all. They were too naïve (and I am being polite) to connect resources and prosperity. After all wind and sun are free resources. Reality has bitten them in the ass, full stop

 

[Kirkhill]

Both of these articles are required reading.

Opinion: How are we so befuddled at U.S. tariffs, when it’s all been so obvious?

Why this U.S. administration applauds tariffs should not be a secret. U.S. President Donald Trump’s chief economist Stephen Miran has been rather explicit

www.theglobeandmail.com

Not since Nixon has a U.S. president set in motion such a significant transformation of global economics

In both the Nixon and Trump cases, the efforts of Canadian prime ministers – then Pierre Trudeau, now Justin Trudeau – to win concessions were flicked away

www.theglobeandmail.com

There is a plan. It is being worked. And it does tie all the pieces together.

This is no spur of the moment action. This is not dependent on the whim of POTUS47.

....

Trump has said many things. And it is possible for many things to be true simultaneously.

https://www.cnbc.com/2024/06/13/trump-all-tariff-policy-to-replace-income-tax.html

...

Against this backdrop are the separate issues of long term Canada US relations and the bipartisan attitude towards Canada in the US - and I suggest 2% Defence, Arctic Security, Immigration Controls (ours, not his) and Border Controls as well as Canada-China relations all fall into that category.

Then, layered on top of that is the Trump-Trudeau dynamic.

....

The articles at the top reference Churchill's return to the Gold Standard Pound in 1925, the Bretton Woods agreement of 1944 and the Nixon repudiation of the Gold Standard in 1973. In all cases Canada suffered and recovered. Sometimes the recovery was longer and more painful than others. But the effects were global and long lasting.

 

[Quirky]

I beg to differ. If that was what Canadians really wanted Trudeau would not have handed in his notice and PP would not be sitting at the top of the polls. All most Canadians simply wanted was their 2 weeks at the cottage/campground, free medicare, dental or whatever as promised by their MP and presented by the TorStar as being their entitlement. They were promised a green utopia and didn't really notice that it was Alberta's oil our natural resources that was paying for it all. They were too naïve (and I am being polite) to connect resources and prosperity. After all wind and sun are free resources. Reality has bitten them in the ass, full stop

We shall see in the next election if Canadians have learned their lesson. Until then, it's the status-quo.

 

[Quirky]

He’s also ‘ripping up’ Ontario’s $100m contract with Elon Musk’s Starlink to provide satellite internet to more remote parts of Ontario.

Ontario pausing retaliatory measures after tariffs postponed, Doug Ford says

Ontario Premier Doug Ford says the province is pausing a suite of retaliatory measures that it was set to begin implementing following an 11th hour postponement of U.S. tariffs.

www.ctvnews.ca

Denying satellite internet to remote parts of Ontario, ok great. What's the alternative?

 

[GR66]

For reference, Visual Capitalist has a great map showing which US States have which countries as their largest source of imports. Lots of States will be significantly impacted by the tariffs on Canada, Mexico (and China).

Mapped: The Top Import Partner of Every U.S. State

This map illustrates the top import partner for each U.S. state.

www.visualcapitalist.com

 

[suffolkowner]

Premier Doug Ford has announced that Ontario will be blocking US companies out of bidding on provincial contracts, potentially a loss of $10b a year in business (something something trade balance). He’s also ‘ripping up’ Ontario’s $100m contract with Elon Musk’s Starlink to provide satellite internet to more remote parts of Ontario.

Ontario pausing retaliatory measures after tariffs postponed, Doug Ford says

Ontario Premier Doug Ford says the province is pausing a suite of retaliatory measures that it was set to begin implementing following an 11th hour postponement of U.S. tariffs.

www.ctvnews.ca

an interesting take on the caretaker convention

 

[Kirkhill]

Sept 24, 2024 - 1 USD buys 1.35 CAD
Today - 1 USD buys 1.48 CAD
USD strengthened by 9.6%

Sept 24 2024 - 1 USD buys 0.89 Euro
Today - 1 USD buys 0.98 Euro
USD strengthened by 10.1%

Sept 24 2024 - 1 USD buys 0.74 UKP
Today - 1 USD buys 0.81 UKP
USD strengthened by 9.5%


Trump has been telegraphing his 10% tariffs since before his election. His win looked fairly certain since late September, early October. The dollar has strengthened by 10% since then creating room for a 10% tariff.

The American consumer will not feel the general tariff.

They will feel the punitive tariffs, those at the 25% level, for example.

 

[deepblue202]

We need more of this, but the current government has their head in the sand.

 

[brihard]

Denying satellite internet to remote parts of Ontario, ok great. What's the alternative?

Xplore Internet by Telesat was the other qualified bidder, they have the capabilities.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Both of these articles are required reading.

Opinion: How are we so befuddled at U.S. tariffs, when it’s all been so obvious?

Why this U.S. administration applauds tariffs should not be a secret. U.S. President Donald Trump’s chief economist Stephen Miran has been rather explicit

www.theglobeandmail.com

Not since Nixon has a U.S. president set in motion such a significant transformation of global economics

In both the Nixon and Trump cases, the efforts of Canadian prime ministers – then Pierre Trudeau, now Justin Trudeau – to win concessions were flicked away

www.theglobeandmail.com

There is a plan. It is being worked. And it does tie all the pieces together.

This is no spur of the moment action. This is not dependent on the whim of POTUS47.

....

Trump has said many things. And it is possible for many things to be true simultaneously.

https://www.cnbc.com/2024/06/13/trump-all-tariff-policy-to-replace-income-tax.html

...

Against this backdrop are the separate issues of long term Canada US relations and the bipartisan attitude towards Canada in the US - and I suggest 2% Defence, Arctic Security, Immigration Controls (ours, not his) and Border Controls as well as Canada-China relations all fall into that category.

Then, layered on top of that is the Trump-Trudeau dynamic.

....

The articles at the top reference Churchill's return to the Gold Standard Pound in 1925, the Bretton Woods agreement of 1944 and the Nixon repudiation of the Gold Standard in 1973. In all cases Canada suffered and recovered. Sometimes the recovery was longer and more painful than others. But the effects were global and long lasting.

Both behind a pay wall for me.

 

[IKnowNothing]

I missed banking on my bingo card last week, but it fits.

From @Kirkhill G&M article

"Tariffs are thus a means to increase “burden sharing” among liberal democracies protected by the U.S. security umbrella and to level trading relationships when partners have better access to U.S. markets than the U.S. has to theirs.

Mr. Miran wants tariffs to cause “currency adjustments.” This is a polite term for crushing the currencies of trading partners that don’t come to the table and offer to “burden share” while opening trade agreements to be more favourable to U.S. job creation."

In other words- fair is going to be redefined to whatever US says it is, and we're going to have to choose been national interests and access to their market.

 

[ArmyRick]

This is an excellent video (my opinion not fact).

I must admit that in the last 2-3 weeks my eyes have been really opened up to inter-provincial trade barriers and was quite surprised