CAN-USA Tariff Strife (split from various pol threads)
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OldSolduer
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This is Brian's Mob name
Justin "Handsy" Trudeau
Pierre "The Pickle" Poliviere
Mark "The Architect" Carney.
Brad Sallows
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"It does not serve Quebec."
So much for appeals to unity. There are always people who want to respect a concensus only when it is useful to them or requires no concession or risk on their part.
So much for appeals to unity. There are always people who want to respect a concensus only when it is useful to them or requires no concession or risk on their part.
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I'm curious. Could a new Conservative government not use the Notwithstanding Clause, citing national security or national interest, to push the pipeline through Quebec? Or short circuit them altogether and make a deal with the First Nations and run it through central Quebec on native land?
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Why bother, seriously? Just finish Northern Gateway, and build a Canadian oil line following TC’s gas line down to Ontario and on up to Churchill, so that Ontario to BC can buy, refine and use AB’s WCS, and let Quebec keep shipping in Saudi oil. If Quebec’s can sleep soundly at night knowing their cars are consuming MBS’s and family’s oil, so be it. I can sleep just as soundly getting my diesel from the Sarina or Nanticoke refineries being fed through an all-Canadian routed AB-ON pipeline.
No. The Notwithstanding Clause applies only to certain Charter sections. It doesn’t apply to division of powers between levels of government as set out in the Constitution Act.
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The Charter (including the notwithstanding clause) do not apply here but the constitution does.
s 91 provides
s 92 provides
My reading is that if a pipeline is inside a province and doesn't extend outside of it then the province controls but if the pipeline connects several provinces or simply transits a province from one to another through a third then the Feds are in charge. The responsible agency is the Canada Energy Regulator.
This is far from my area of expertise, but I think that a Federal government, with the political will, could make it happen.
OldSolduer
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Political will is the key phrase. If Quebec decides to block a pipeline, they should lose transfer payments equal to the expected revenue each year until they approve. A James/Hudson Bay loading station is also feasible and local first nations should be given the training needed and first crack at jobs to operate it.
Right- but S.92 speaks of exclusive jurisdiction. So the province gets exclusive jurisdiction over ‘local works and undertakings’. However, there’s also no S.91 exclusive federal jurisdiction for interprovincial works not specifically described; so does this mean both jurisdictions have some room to claim scope to legislate?The Charter (including the notwithstanding clause) do not apply here but the constitution does.
s 91 provides
s 92 provides
My reading is that if a pipeline is inside a province and doesn't extend outside of it then the province controls but if the pipeline connects several provinces or simply transits a province from one to another through a third then the Feds are in charge. The responsible agency is the Canada Energy Regulator.
This is far from my area of expertise, but I think that a Federal government, with the political will, could make it happen.
Certainly the regulation of an interprovincial pipeline would seem to fall to the CER. However, I could see provinces raising challenges based on, say, S.92(13) jurisdiction over property, or over the provincial authority that has been recognized over environmental concerns… Enough to keep things very bogged down, anyway.
Equalization payments are provided for in S.36 of the Constitution Act. There’s no provision there for withholding payments based on a province not wishing to be part of an infrastructure project. Any provincial blockage of interprovincial infrastructure would no doubt come in the form of legislating and litigating; that makes it a matter for the courts to sort out.
Let’s not forget that in the past few years, SCC shot down federal overreach into provincial jurisdiction in the Impact Assessment Act reference case. It’s by no means a clean analogue. However, it does show that the SCC won’t shy away from upholding provincial jurisdiction.
All in all, there’s enough to keep a federally imposed pipeline jammed up in court for a long time. Otherwise a Conservative government would probably have already legislated.
Realistically, a path forward on a pipeline to the east is going to depend on consensus building in order to happen in a relevant time span.
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The key there is "local" and the fact that the "exclusive jurisdiction" does not apply when the work is
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Even less of a scholar than you guys but I think Section 92A(3), coupled with Parliament's 'peace, order and good government' authority, come into play. In my view, a province's exclusive jurisdiction of resources relates to to production and export, not 'pass through'.
- (3) Nothing in subsection (2) derogates from the authority of Parliament to enact laws in relation to the matters referred to in that subsection and, where such a law of Parliament and a law of a province conflict, the law of Parliament prevails to the extent of the conflict.
Halifax Tar
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I'm happy he's ours as well.
A couple of bad moves on the auditor general and communication but he walked them back.
All in all I wonder if Tim's future is at the federal level, and would it be CPC or LPC ?
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That's a
Good question. He runs his government and the economy like a fiscal conservative, but his stance on social policies are straight up liberal. He's a true red-torie or possibly even a blue-grit.
Halifax Tar
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He's probably the calm, boring centerist we need.
Yup, we’re saying the same thing. I wasn’t suggesting a pipeline is local by any means. I’m agreeing that S.92 exclusive provincial jurisdiction over works and undertakings does not apply. However there’s also not an exclusive federal jurisdiction enumerated either; I.e., while regulation is obviously going to be a federal matter, there doesn’t seem to be a S.91 enumerated federal power that would let them legislate roughshod over the provinces on this. If neither side has exclu*sive* power, potentially neither side is exclu*ded*, in the sense that both probably have a seat they can righteously claim at the table. The original constitution explicitly included certain forms of interprovincial works as federal; pipelines have never been added, including in 1982 when the best opportunity to do so arose.The key there is "local" and the fact that the "exclusive jurisdiction" does not apply when the work is
Anyway, I’m just suggesting it’s a murky enough picture to lead to years of litigation.
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Residual powers belong to the federal government, though they have been ineffective in asserting that authority.
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