CAN-USA Tariff Strife (split from various pol threads)

[suffolkowner]

He did.



Quebec imports from (in order):
1. Saudi Arabia,
2. Algeria,
3. Norway and
4. Nigeria.

Quebec imported over half of all of Canada’s oil imports, followed by close second New Brunswick (also Saudi Arabia is their #1 source)

Commentary: Guess where Canada’s $488 billion in foreign oil came from?....and which province imports the most? - Canadian Energy News, Top Headlines, Commentaries, Features & Events - EnergyNow

Quebec leads in oil imports from other countries despite Canada’s vast oil reserves By Mark Milke and Lennie Kaplan Follow CEC on Linkedin CEC Linkedin Follow CEC on Facebook CEC Facebook Follow CEC on Twitter CEC Twitter Downtown Montreal, Quebec In one of the great ironies of modern Canadian...

energynow.ca

Do you know what it breaks down to per year? Just wondering on the capacity requirement

 

[Good2Golf]

Do you know what it breaks down to per year? Just wondering on the capacity requirement

The article and others I researched didn’t break down fractions in Qc and NB, but you can see the refining capacity here:

Canadian Refineries | Oil Sands Magazine

DESCRIPTION: CANADIAN REFINERIES SITE MAP: PROJECTS / REFINERIES / CANADA SOURCE: CAPP, STATISTICS CANADA, REFINERY OPERATORS UPDATED: AUG 5, 2025

www.oilsandsmagazine.com

*Irving’s Saint John refinery is the largest in Canada and Ultramar’s Levi refinery is Canada’s second largest. Both are light crude refineries, not heavy/sour refineries.

NEW BRUNSWICK
Irving Oil Refinery	Irving Oil	Saint John, NB	1960	320,000
QUEBEC
Montreal Refinery	Suncor Energy	Montreal, QC	1955	137,000
Jean-Gaulin Refinery	Valero (Ultramar)	Lévis, QC	1971	235,000

 

[dapaterson]

Meh, Quebecers are sleeping soundly at night, so it’s not really a problem, is it?



No go. That would need dangerous pipelines all the way from Vaudreuil and Dorion to Levis. Way too dangerous. That’s 294km of precipitous death.

Pipelines are better than trains. Just ask Lac Megantic.

 

[OldSolduer]

There are allegations that some Canadian imports are, in fact, blends that include Russian oil.

My simple solution would be to build a refinery to handle AB oil sands product in Quebec, for onwards sale to Atlantic Canada.

So I’d like to see some offshore bank accounts that I think lots of Canadians have.

Follow the money

 

[armyvern]

Be interesting to see who's fleet carries that oil from over seas.
That oil is a blend of all the ME including the countries on the banned list.

Makes things even more interesting

Cargo and Product Trading | Irving Oil

From wholesale gasoline to natural gas, our flexible worldwide supply of quality products is built on supply chain excellence. Learn more.

www.irvingoil.com

 

[suffolkowner]

The article and others I researched didn’t break down fractions in Qc and NB, but you can see the refining capacity here:

Canadian Refineries | Oil Sands Magazine

DESCRIPTION: CANADIAN REFINERIES SITE MAP: PROJECTS / REFINERIES / CANADA SOURCE: CAPP, STATISTICS CANADA, REFINERY OPERATORS UPDATED: AUG 5, 2025

www.oilsandsmagazine.com

*Irving’s Saint John refinery is the largest in Canada and Ultramar’s Levi refinery is Canada’s second largest. Both are light crude refineries, not heavy/sour refineries.

NEW BRUNSWICK
Irving Oil Refinery	Irving Oil	Saint John, NB	1960	320,000
QUEBEC
Montreal Refinery	Suncor Energy	Montreal, QC	1955	137,000
Jean-Gaulin Refinery	Valero (Ultramar)	Lévis, QC	1971	235,000

interesting. I wonder what the needs are to justify a pipeline? I note that Trans Mountain was 300,000 and expanded to 890,000
Would those refineries take WCS?

 

[foresterab]

The Charter (including the notwithstanding clause) do not apply here but the constitution does.

s 91 provides



s 92 provides



My reading is that if a pipeline is inside a province and doesn't extend outside of it then the province controls but if the pipeline connects several provinces or simply transits a province from one to another through a third then the Feds are in charge. The responsible agency is the Canada Energy Regulator.

This is far from my area of expertise, but I think that a Federal government, with the political will, could make it happen.

FJAG...you're bang on in regards to inter-provincial lines requiring federal approval. But internally it's just provincial law.

 

[Good2Golf]

Pipelines are better than trains. Just ask Lac Megantic.

Lac Megantic was just an anomaly, just ask Quebecers who don’t want the pipelines, but are happy for the trains to continue.

 

[brihard]

FJAG...you're bang on in regards to inter-provincial lines requiring federal approval. But internally it's just provincial law.

Yeah, the whole constitutional question arose out of the early ask about if the feds could just use the notwithstanding clause.

 

[foresterab]

What

Yeah, the whole constitutional question arose out of the early ask about if the feds could just use the notwithstanding clause.

While I know it's the federal legislation involved with the operation and construction of lines (have dealt with it professionally and the NEB has no sense of humour) I'm still not clear what the federal powers are in the face of provincial opposition to build trans-provincial projects. I remember this dispute where Alberta was against the pipeline expansion as it would bring more BC Natural gas into the Alberta system depressing already low prices...https://www.biv.com/news/resources-agriculture/alberta-threat-gas-pipeline-puts-northern-bc-economy-notice-8252091
I've been able to find the approval decision - via Federal authority but not much on the legislation or official opposition from Alberta beyond media noise.

Once built it's very clear how things stack up as proven in the latest court case I know of in 2018 on the BC/AB dispute over TMX. Supreme Court of Canada takes thirty minutes to unanimously reject British Columbia's proposed regulation of Alberta heavy oil through the Trans Mountain Pipeline | BD&P

I did find a Canada Highways Act, the Canada Transportation Act (for railways) and what appears to be the correct one: The Canadian Energy Regulator Act which covers both powerlines and pipelines....but only if inter-provincial or offshore/onshore. But even knowing the legislation I still can't figure out if the Federal Government can "force" approval on projects or how.

 

[GK .Dundas]

Yup, we’re saying the same thing. I wasn’t suggesting a pipeline is local by any means. I’m agreeing that S.92 exclusive provincial jurisdiction over works and undertakings does not apply. However there’s also not an exclusive federal jurisdiction enumerated either; I.e., while regulation is obviously going to be a federal matter, there doesn’t seem to be a S.91 enumerated federal power that would let them legislate roughshod over the provinces on this. If neither side has exclu*sive* power, potentially neither side is exclu*ded*, in the sense that both probably have a seat they can righteously claim at the table. The original constitution explicitly included certain forms of interprovincial works as federal; pipelines have never been added, including in 1982 when the best opportunity to do so arose.

Anyway, I’m just suggesting it’s a murky enough picture to lead to years of litigation.

I've got a question and it may not be as silly as it first may appear.
What's the difference between the Rideau canal and the discussed pipeline from a legal point of view?
Can't you describe them both as projects built for the purpose of National Defence?
And in spite of all the somewhat bizarre political gymnastics when it comes to Federal Provincial relations. Defence falls into the Federal purview as opposed to Provincial.
Or it least it used to .....

 

[brihard]

I've got a question and it may not be as silly as it first may appear.
What's the difference between the Rideau canal and the discussed pipeline from a legal point of view?
Can't you describe them both as projects built for the purpose of National Defence?
And in spite of all the somewhat bizarre political gymnastics when it comes to Federal Provincial relations. Defence falls into the Federal purview as opposed to Provincial.
Or it least it used to .....

I think you’d hit a bunch of other things more directly before you got to national defence.

I think if this was an easy answer, it would exist already. Even provinces that really want such a pipeline will probably feel some trepidation at encouraging a legal argument that the feds can force it on a reluctant province. Because if they can do that, what else could they impose in a legal grey space?

I’m far, far from an expert on this though, and definitely not a lawyer; some other members here are. I’m just spitballing it as best as I can.

 

[daftandbarmy]

Very egg-citing

https://twitter.com/x/status/1896096629666799734

 

[Brad Sallows]

Very egg-citing

If the cost of Canadian eggs with a 25% tariff is cheaper than the cost of US eggs, it still amounts to a comparative advantage. It is completely sensible although that might be hard to digest by people who filter everything emotionally.

 

[PrairieFella]

If the cost of Canadian eggs with a 25% tariff is cheaper than the cost of US eggs, it still amounts to a comparative advantage. It is completely sensible although that might be hard to digest by people who filter everything emotionally.

It's like you're physically incapable of viewing anything they're doing down south as ill-informed. He was commenting on the stupidity of the tariffs, which are stupid as shit and will cause a contraction at best, recession more likely, in the States.

 

[lenaitch]

I've got a question and it may not be as silly as it first may appear.
What's the difference between the Rideau canal and the discussed pipeline from a legal point of view?
Can't you describe them both as projects built for the purpose of National Defence?
And in spite of all the somewhat bizarre political gymnastics when it comes to Federal Provincial relations. Defence falls into the Federal purview as opposed to Provincial.
Or it least it used to .....

The Rideau Canal was built by the British before the British North America Act (Constitution Act 1867) was passed. It was intended as a way of protecting the movement of military assets between Montreal and Kingston after the War of 1812 and when it was believed the US still had designs on the colony.

I suppose from a strictly legal perspective, the British could pretty much do what they wanted to in their colony.

I think there is a danger of lumping a large basket of public spending under the guise of 'national security'. That's what seems to be going on in the US right now.

 

[brihard]

If the cost of Canadian eggs with a 25% tariff is cheaper than the cost of US eggs, it still amounts to a comparative advantage. It is completely sensible although that might be hard to digest by people who filter everything emotionally.

It’s still stupid to tariff imports of basic grocery items that they’re presently unable to substitute. We can sell them anyway, and their own population needlessly overpays for the basic necessities that they’re dependent on. They’ve simply imposed a 25% sales tax on imported eggs. What policy or behavioural change is thusly achieved? Is the policy objective to drive their population towards shittier food?

I mean, accuse others of taking things emotionally, sure… But maybe in defence of Trump’s Egg Tax isn’t the most compelling place to do that.

 

[Remius]

It's like you're physically incapable of viewing anything they're doing down south as ill-informed. He was commenting on the stupidity of the tariffs, which are stupid as shit and will cause a contraction at best, recession more likely, in the States.

And it will only increase the US “subsidizing” Canada right? lol.

 

[Brad Sallows]

It's like you're physically incapable of viewing anything they're doing down south as ill-informed. He was commenting on the stupidity of the tariffs, which are stupid as shit and will cause a contraction at best, recession more likely, in the States.

I've already commented elsewhere on the stupidity of the tariffs, but the tariff issue is supposedly going to be there on everything, regardless. This time I'm commenting on a situation in which the price gap is such that importing eggs is a smart thing to do, even if juxtaposing the tariff issue makes a good meme.

The bad news is that if Americans are willing to pay more for Canadian eggs and still save money versus buying American eggs, I expect prices to increase for Canadians due to the demand competition. That should keep outrage pipes burning for a while, for those that need it.

 

[Brad Sallows]

It’s still stupid to tariff imports of basic grocery items that they’re presently unable to substitute.

It's stupid to have import tariffs on almost anything. We needlessly overpay for basic necessities, too, due to protectionist government policies. That's the landscape.

I mean, accuse others of taking things emotionally, sure… But maybe in defence of Trump’s Egg Tax isn’t the most compelling place to do that.

"Egg Tax". How clever.