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CAN-USA Tariff Strife (split from various pol threads)

Let’s assume the worst should happen and the Americans do either a major invasion or a quick takeover of Canada’s infrastructure.
Why invade when youtube videos are so cheap?

DJT's brashness set them back, but a little flexibility in how they account for Canada vs. the rest, a little honey to sell said fortress NA / NA exceptionalism, a little targeted subversion and they end up with a pliant vassal.
 
Let’s assume the worst should happen and the Americans do either a major invasion or a quick takeover of Canada’s infrastructure. I would hope that the majority of Canadians would not simply stand by without doing anything. During the Nazi’s occupation of Europe people of all ages and economic classes formed a very formidable resistance. It all depends on which side has the greatest need to either preserve what they have had or to deprive someone else of what they did have.
If the US said -
1) your wages are paid in USD
2) your income taxes now align with the US
3) HST is gone - back to only PST, no GST
4) your health care system remains untouched until a referendum sometime in the future
5) internal borders remain in place to ensure the current guns/drugs monitoring remains in place
6) your provincial laws remain in place
7) your labour laws remain in place
8) your university/college costs remain in place
9) metric system is gone
10) US airlines have complete access to Canada and existing Canadian airlines have complete access to the US
11) US cell/internet companies have complete access to Canada and existing Canadian cell/internet companies have complete access to the US
12) Quebec retains French within the Province - elsewhere French ceases to have any official status

Tell me a sizeable chunk of the CDN population wouldn't roll over.
 
Who at this point would think a defence commitment from Trump is worth anything? Particular in that context and under those terms?

I guess that any country in the western hemisphere that allows a foothold of any of the CRINK is at serious risk. I think the US looks at Canada as failing in it's defence commitments and very weak on foreign influence (CCP specifically). This is, in their eyes, a major security liability for the US.
 
Let’s assume the worst should happen and the Americans do either a major invasion or a quick takeover of Canada’s infrastructure. I would hope that the majority of Canadians would not simply stand by without doing anything. During the Nazi’s occupation of Europe people of all ages and economic classes formed a very formidable resistance. It all depends on which side has the greatest need to either preserve what they have had or to deprive someone else of what they did have.
What is it you think ordinary Canadians ought to be fighting (risk dying) for, that is superior to ending all the particularly Canadian political and legal squabbles about the structure of the country and how money is transferred and which groups are favoured and what rights people have and how much they are subject to capricious limits? There are lists of good things and bad things about Canada, and lists of good things and bad things about America. An honest appraisal of all four lists is required if you really want a sense of whether your hope is truly forlorn.

Maybe there really is a resistance alliance of Laurentian power brokers and blue-haired activists waiting to be born.
 
I think they correctly identified our unique ability to stand in the way of their plans, but underestimated
A- our willingness to do so
B- DJT's instability leading to sub-optimal reactions to A.

…and…

C- the global economic implications that Miran’s strategy contained as told elements that would have unintended negative consequences to America’s waning global economic hegemony.

My concern is if Trump says to NATO, its either Greenland or Canada - which hill are you willing to sacrifice the Alliance on?

Last time I was in Brussels and Mons, the general sentiment was of NATO’s ‘rump’ having rapidly degrading trust of the US.

True
Adding to that - Trump says to the rump of NATO, we'll throw in the bonuses of continued large US military presence throughout Europe, we'll provide a full brigade to Latvia to replace the CDN's there and we'll give the Ukrainians a timeline to NATO and a 50yr defense agreement.

Tell me there would not be significant numbers with NATO who would agree to this -

I sense the opposite is actually true. Related to my note above, I was in Brussels and Mons months ago and there is growing sentiment that America is of dubious value to NATO’s future. Heck, some countries are growing in sentiment towards seeing/having/forcing America to get of their soil (Poland in particular I believe seriously questions having US V Corps deployed on its soil).

I’ll be swinging through Brussels and Mons in a few weeks and see what the latest sentiment is.

Yes, true again - but look at the world we currently live in - we have the US President openly talking about absorbing the sovereign territory of a close ally another F-35 operator and previously openly bantering about the making of its closest ally/neighbour part of its country.
An interesting quandary for people giving consideration to that potential breach of allied sovereignty. We’ll see if “the F-35 doesn’t have and ‘God Code’ in it” holds up… 😉

I wonder what the over/under for F-35 on F-35 is? 🤔
 
, that is superior to ending all the particularly Canadian political and legal squabbles about the structure of the country and how money is transferred and which groups are favoured and what rights people have and how much they are subject to capricious limits?
our right to make those decisions for ourselves.
 
our right to make those decisions for ourselves.
Abstract fluff. You'll have to do better than hand-waving at cloud-shaped diagrams.

I vote in federal elections for a member of one legislative body. If I were American, I'd get to also vote for a senator and an executive team. Provincially I vote for one MLA. If I were American, I'd get to also vote for a state senator and a governor, and probably some other stuff like a LG and AG.

I'd have rights to expression and arms beyond the reach of tinkering technocrats and aggrieved activists.

I'd have greater accessibility to timely health care in a manner of my choosing.

Do go on about "decisions we make for ourselves", rather than those "made for us by our betters or by people with axes to grind who have the ears of our betters".
 
If I were American, I'd get to also vote for a senator and an executive team."
then move to america, if you think an american takeover (especially under the current administration) would grant Canadians american voting rights then i have several bridges to sell you.

Do go on about "decisions we make for ourselves", rather than those "made for us by our betters or by people with axes to grind who have the ears of our betters".
it not perfect system, but it is our system. I'm proud to be Canadian, even with the many flaws, if you're not then maybe you should help fix the country instead of wanting big orange daddy to come in and take care of you.
 
then move to america, if you think an american takeover (especially under the current administration) would grant Canadians american voting rights then i have several bridges to sell you.


it not perfect system, but it is our system. I'm proud to be Canadian, even with the many flaws, if you're not then maybe you should help fix the country instead of wanting big orange daddy to come in and take care of you.

The problem with Americophiles is that they can actually exercise their freedom of movement but most can’t really offer anything of use to their target country and just want it to “happen” rather than just pack their shit and put in the work to get out.

So we are stuck with them.
 
then move to america, if you think an american takeover (especially under the current administration) would grant Canadians american voting rights then i have several bridges to sell you.


it not perfect system, but it is our system. I'm proud to be Canadian, even with the many flaws, if you're not then maybe you should help fix the country instead of wanting big orange daddy to come in and take care of you.

What happens when presented with the list from CP, along with an accounting of the four lists mentioned by Brad, shows a majority in favor?
 
What happens when presented with the list from CP, along with an accounting of the four lists mentioned by Brad, shows a majority in favor?
whatever the result it would at least be our decision. I know there are some weak submissive types out there who are natural bootlickers but I think the majority of Canadians want the country to retain it's sovereignty.
 
If the US said -
1) your wages are paid in USD
That would entail losing economic sovereignty over our monetary policy. I doubt that would be entertained by anyone.
2) your income taxes now align with the US
In what way? Rates?
3) HST is gone - back to only PST, no GST
That can be already be achieved. No one seems to be too upset about consumption taxes. What replaces it?
4) your health care system remains untouched until a referendum sometime in the future
So there is a chance it goes away? Non starter.
5) internal borders remain in place to ensure the current guns/drugs monitoring remains in place
Why? Give the rest of the list that seems useless.
6) your provincial laws remain in place
The US would never allow that.
7) your labour laws remain in place
Possible.
8) your university/college costs remain in place
How when you’ve removed GST and tied us to the USD.
9) metric system is gone
No one here would go for that. Maybe if they agreed to convert. That would be more enticing.
10) US airlines have complete access to Canada and existing Canadian airlines have complete access to the US
Are we not mostly there?
11) US cell/internet companies have complete access to Canada and existing Canadian cell/internet companies have complete access to the US
Sure.
12) Quebec retains French within the Province - elsewhere French ceases to have any official status
You underestimate the reaction to that sort of thing.
Tell me a sizeable chunk of the CDN population wouldn't roll over.
Alberta would. That’s it.
 
whatever the result it would at least be our decision. I know there are some weak submissive types out there who are natural bootlickers but I think the majority of Canadians want the country to retain it's sovereignty.

Interesting position. Some people think the weak and submissive bootlicking label applies to those content with decisions "made for us by our betters or by people with axes to grind who have the ears of our betters", as opposed to the US model.
 
…and…

C- the global economic implications that Miran’s strategy contained as told elements that would have unintended negative consequences to America’s waning global economic hegemony.



Last time I was in Brussels and Mons, the general sentiment was of NATO’s ‘rump’ having rapidly degrading trust of the US.



I sense the opposite is actually true. Related to my note above, I was in Brussels and Mons months ago and there is growing sentiment that America is of dubious value to NATO’s future. Heck, some countries are growing in sentiment towards seeing/having/forcing America to get of their soil (Poland in particular I believe seriously questions having US V Corps deployed on its soil).

I’ll be swinging through Brussels and Mons in a few weeks and see what the latest sentiment is.


An interesting quandary for people giving consideration to that potential breach of allied sovereignty. We’ll see if “the F-35 doesn’t have and ‘God Code’ in it” holds up… 😉

I wonder what the over/under for F-35 on F-35 is? 🤔
Denmark would have to somehow get their F35's to Greenland and if they managed to do that, which airfield in Greenland would they be able to shelter them at? Thule is staffed mostly be the US.

It would have fly them to Greenland, they'd need someone to refuel their F35's for them - who's going to put their neck on the line for them - and they might have to land them in Iceland as well for refueling. Again, is Iceland going to stick their neck out for Denmark?
 
Interesting position. Some people think the weak and submissive bootlicking label applies to those content with decisions "made for us by our betters or by people with axes to grind who have the ears of our betters", as opposed to the US model.
how is the US model any better? are you under the impression that the US government is a smooth well oiled machine that governs fairly and justly with no complaints from anyone? Cause if so, line up behind Brad for my sale on bridges, act fast.
 
how is the US model any better? are you under the impression that the US government is a smooth well oiled machine that governs fairly and justly with no complaints from anyone? Cause if so, line up behind Brad for my sale on bridges, act fast.
I think there are good and bad for both models. My question was if presented with the options and a majority voted for the US model, what then? Your response was "at lease it was our decision". I like to engage in thought experiment of a fortress NA without any emotional backlash.
 
True
Adding to that - Trump says to the rump of NATO, we'll throw in the bonuses of continued large US military presence throughout Europe, we'll provide a full brigade to Latvia to replace the CDN's there and we'll give the Ukrainians a timeline to NATO and a 50yr defense agreement.

Tell me there would not be significant numbers with NATO who would agree to this -
If Trump were to annex the territory of a NATO member that "continued large US military presence throughout Europe" would no longer be seen as a mutual defence partner but rather an occupation force to enforce compliance with American policies.
 
then move to america, if you think an american takeover (especially under the current administration) would grant Canadians american voting rights then i have several bridges to sell you.
Those are different goalposts. There are lots of countries in the world I could happily live in, despite whichever flaws I think each has. The point was about resisting American invasion. I'd make the same challenge to those "hoping" for a resistance if I lived in New Zealand and they were (irrationally) concerned about (unlikely) takeover by Australia. Pose the question with Russia or China in the place of the US or Australia and I'll give a different short answer.

Those who "hope" people will kill and die for Canada if it's invaded by a particular country should try making the case for the specific scenario, not wash themselves in vague aspirations that a bundle of social welfare programs is worth the cost.
I'm proud to be Canadian, even with the many flaws, if you're not then maybe you should help fix the country instead of wanting big orange daddy to come in and take care of you.
It's possible to be patriotic and to be severely critical. Every time I vote, I vote for the position closest to what I would prefer, undeterred by leadership qualities or vague imaginary worries of the electorally near-impossible ascension of some severe brand of social conservativism. And I advocate for it, which is what I'm doing right now. And I will dissent if someone tries to propose that killing or being killed by Americans is really worth anything, which is the same position I take on dealing with any unilaterally seceding region of Canada being opposed by force.
 
If Trump were to annex the territory of a NATO member that "continued large US military presence throughout Europe" would no longer be seen as a mutual defence partner but rather an occupation force to enforce compliance with American policies.
And?
After reading Trump's Monroe Doctrine 2.0 end to end, that is basically their end goal.
 
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