CAN-USA Tariff Strife (split from various pol threads)

[Altair]

Look dude, I’ll say it once just so it’s said, and because you and I have basically never really butted heads, so maybe you’ll credit me with being neutral and objective on this… You have become so very insufferably smug and contemptuous in the past short while that it basically drowns out anything of value you have to say, and it’s openly discussed behind your back by some of us who’ve been around while. And, knowing myself and how I’m seen by some, if you’re hearing that from me, well… Anyway, if in doubt, you’ll probably find this corroborated by how relatively little engagement you get from people making an objective effort to assess and discuss points you make in such a way as to actually move a discussion forward.

Do with that what you will- I’ve been sitting on the edge of saying this for like a week. It’s worth exactly what you paid and nothing more. But if your intent here is to be part of informed discourse, rather than basically heckling… Consider a course correction.

I’ll say nothing further on it; there’s no need, but I figured for your efforts to be active here you at least deserve to know how it’s landing.

What can I say?

I've been an advocate for moving away from the USA since 2017-2018 and now the geopolitical conditions for such a global realignment have come to pass.

Europe is making the moves, Canada is making the moves, Asian nations are making the moves and generally I am happy to see this.

If me being pleased that countries are waking up to the reality of what the USA is is considered smug then I guess I am smug.

If me, who has said since 2019 that we should get the Gripen sees the once in a Canadian lifetime the opportunity to get it is considered smug, then I guess I am smug.

Truth be told, most of my time here I've been the outlier, the progressive, the one who nobody agrees with save the few who send me DMs in private.

So I appreciate your perspective but this is nothing new for me. I get my validation from those outside this site, definitely not by those on it as much as I respect all your differing viewpoints.

This site is good for exposing myself to differing viewpoints that I might otherwise be blind to. For example, as much as I don't view gun rights as a topic I care much about(I'm a crossbow guy myself), I do browse said thread quite often and have come around to thinking that the gun buyback is a flawed COA simply by reading the opinions shared there.

Thats all to say, if you feel like my presence if a net negative, that's fine. I'll leave. I didn't post here for over a year, I'll do so again.

 

[HavokFour]

Aren’t their new battlefield command birds Globals?

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but there are also no American companies currently producing regional jets.

 

[brihard]

What can I say?

I've been an advocate for moving away from the USA since 2017-2018 and now the geopolitical conditions for such a global realignment have come to pass.

Europe is making the moves, Canada is making the moves, Asian nations are making the moves and generally I am happy to see this.

If me being pleased that countries are waking up to the reality of what the USA is is considered smug then I guess I am smug.

If me, who has said since 2019 that we should get the Gripen sees the once in a Canadian lifetime the opportunity to get it is considered smug, then I guess I am smug.

Truth be told, most of my time here I've been the outlier, the progressive, the one who nobody agrees with save the few who send me DMs in private.

So I appreciate your perspective but this is nothing new for me. I get my validation from those outside this site, definitely not by those on it as much as I respect all your differing viewpoints.

This site is good for exposing myself to differing viewpoints that I might otherwise be blind to. For example, as much as I don't view gun rights as a topic I care much about(I'm a crossbow guy myself), I do browse said thread quite often and have come around to thinking that the gun buyback is a flawed COA simply by reading the opinions shared there.

Thats all to say, if you feel like my presence if a net negative, that's fine. I'll leave. I didn't post here for over a year, I'll do so again.

You misunderstand. It’s not a ‘validation’, or even a ‘fitting in’ thing. I was actually happy to see you back, and remain so- diversity of perspective is a good thing, and you bring that. A lot of the time we align a fair bit. It’s just that very recently it’s like there’s been a gear shift and suddenly your engagement has shifted in tone such that, in real life, it would just be a ‘turn your back and walk away’. I guess the online version isn’t ’net negative’ but rather ‘oh it’s him’ and just scroll past.

That’s based entirely on the interpersonals, not the merits of views you may hold or the objections one may or may not have to them.

Anyway, I’m not looking to derail the thread further. Just consider it food for thought, and like I said, do with it what you will. Meanwhile I brace for others to pot/kettle me.

 

[Mick]

I’m not a planeologist. What, precisely, is this giggling muppet going on about now?

View attachment 98200

Basically, older Gulfstream models have been type-certified in Canada for years, and as a result, these models (types) can be registered in Canada and operated by Canadian owners and companies.

Similarly, Bombardier aircraft models must receive FAA type-certification in order to become US-registered aircraft, and to be operated by US companies (NetJets, for example, operates 200+ Bombardier business jets).

State regulators such as TC, FAA, EASA (EU Aviation Safety Agency), etc will all issue their own certifications, thus allowing these aircraft to be registered and owned/operated in their respective jurisdictions.

What Trump seems to be angry about relates to the newest Gulfstream models; 500/600/700/800.

As far as I can tell, only the very recently FAA-approved 700/800 aren't yet certified by TC.

G700 was FAA certified in Mar 2024 and G800 was FAA certified in Apr 2025.

The fact that these models aren't yet TC-certified doesn't stop US-registered aircraft from flying in Canadian airspace, or landing at Canadian airports, but it does prevent registration of these types in Canada, thus inhibiting sales in Canada.

My feeling is that this is just a bureaucratic snag on TC's end, not the political interference that DJT is inferring (and threatening as retaliation).

There are a ton of US-registered Challenger 300/600 and Globals. If Trump is somehow able to actually "decertify" these aircraft, it will be massively disruptive to US owners and operators.

 

[brihard]

Basically, older Gulfstream models have been type-certified in Canada for years, and as a result, these models (types) can be registered in Canada and operated by Canadian owners and companies.

Similarly, Bombardier aircraft models must receive FAA type-certification in order to become US-registered aircraft, and to be operated by US companies (NetJets, for example, operates 200+ Bombardier business jets).

State regulators such as TC, FAA, EASA (EU Aviation Safety Agency), etc will all issue their own certifications, thus allowing these aircraft to be registered and owned/operated in their respective jurisdictions.

What Trump seems to be angry about relates to the newest Gulfstream models; 500/600/700/800.

As far as I can tell, only the very recently FAA-approved 700/800 aren't yet certified by TC.

G700 was FAA certified in Mar 2024 and G800 was FAA certified in Apr 2025.

The fact that these models aren't yet TC-certified doesn't stop US-registered aircraft from flying in Canadian airspace, or landing at Canadian airports, but it does prevent registration of these types in Canada, thus inhibiting sales in Canada.

My feeling is that this is just a bureaucratic snag on TC's end, not the political interference that DJT is inferring (and threatening as retaliation).

There are a ton of US-registered Challenger 300/600 and Globals. If Trump is somehow able to actually "decertify" these aircraft, it will be massively disruptive to US owners and operators.

Gotcha. So if he did what he’s threatening a bunch of rich people would have their private jets disrupted?

 

[HavokFour]

A small amount of research.


E-11A BACN (Air Force): 9 aircraft.

HADES / ATHENA (Army): 4–6 aircraft

RO-6A / C-146 (Army/SOCOM): 10+ aircraft. (Modified Dash 8s). engines.

E-9A Widget (Air Force): 2 aircraft. (Modified Dash 8s)

DHC-6 Twin Otter (Navy/NRL): 1–2 aircraft.
NOAA flies several as well.

UV-18B Twin Otter (Air Force): 3 aircraft.

C-147A (Army): ~3 aircraft. (Dash 8s).


And a good chunk of the firefighting fleet (CL-215 & CL-415)...

Yeah I don't think this is actually going happen. Too ridiculous even for him, expect someone to give him the backhand of reality shortly.

 

[Mick]

Gotcha. So if he did what he’s threatening a bunch of rich people would have their private jets disrupted?

Pretty much. Of course it will affect sales, but the immediate impact will be felt by American operators and owners.

And it won't prohibit Canadian-registered jets from flying into the US.

 

[suffolkowner]

https://twitter.com/x/status/2017046606491668538

Policy Hawk suggesting there might be a few issues

 

[Navy_Pete]

https://twitter.com/x/status/2017046606491668538

Policy Hawk suggesting there might be a few issues

That kind of makes sense; I think before we were largely accepting the FAA cert at face value, so assume we're now just doing more due diligence.

If only we did the same to ISI built ships instead of taking the LR certificates (that LR provided to ISI who was paying their bill) at face value, knowing the class has thousands of defects, and CCG is now making a number of fixes for things that didn't actually meet SOLAS in AOPs (that was flagged by project SMEs and the RCN safety certOs but ignored by the Naval Material Assurance head).

 

[Mick]

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but there are also no American companies currently producing regional jets.

I believe you're correct - I think Embraer owns that market.

However, Bombardier sold their regional jet (CRJ) program to Mitsubishi Heavy Industries, including the type certificate.

Mitsubishi terminated further production, but still provides support to the remaining aircraft.

Unsure if these jets would be affected.

 

[lenaitch]

Pretty much. Of course it will affect sales, but the immediate impact will be felt by American operators and owners.

And it won't prohibit Canadian-registered jets from flying into the US.

I suspect he doesn't understand the nuance of what he is yapping about - again.

He must have had a Big Mac lunch with somebody from Gulfstream.

I'm not sure this is within the authority of an EO but he's pretty much trashed that bridge months ago.

 

[HavokFour]

The White House has already started the process of walking it back.

While a White House official told Reuters that Trump was not suggesting decertifying Canadian-built planes currently in operation, the president’s warning on Thursday night caused confusion and alarm among airlines and aviation analysts, along with buyers and owners of private ‌jets.

Bombardier shares drop 9% after Trump threatens Canada with aircraft tariffs, decertification

Bombardier shares dropped 9% on Friday after U.S. President Donald Trump threatened to decertify the private jet maker’s large-cabin planes "and all Aircraft made in Canada" and slap 50% import tariffs on new planes until Canada certified ‌the latest aircraft produced by U.S. rival Gulfstream.

www.reuters.com

 

[Navy_Pete]

The White House has already started the process of walking it back.

Bombardier shares drop 9% after Trump threatens Canada with aircraft tariffs, decertification

Bombardier shares dropped 9% on Friday after U.S. President Donald Trump threatened to decertify the private jet maker’s large-cabin planes "and all Aircraft made in Canada" and slap 50% import tariffs on new planes until Canada certified ‌the latest aircraft produced by U.S. rival Gulfstream.

www.reuters.com

Even the FAA has no legal ability to 'decertify' a plane unless there is a safety issue, so can see that executive order losing a court challenge, and having a good chance of an injunction if it was tried.

Not that will stop him from signing an executive order that would cause a lot of chaos across global aviation and a lot of American companies but pretty clear there are no adults left in the room anymore.

 

[Mick]

Even the FAA has no legal ability to 'decertify' a plane unless there is a safety issue, so can see that executive order losing a court challenge, and having a good chance of an injunction if it was tried.

Not that will stop him from signing an executive order that would cause a lot of chaos across global aviation and a lot of American companies but pretty clear there are no adults left in the room anymore.

The last thing the flying public needs is politicians influencing aircraft certification and safety standards.

 

[Czech_pivo]

The White House has already started the process of walking it back.

Bombardier shares drop 9% after Trump threatens Canada with aircraft tariffs, decertification

Bombardier shares dropped 9% on Friday after U.S. President Donald Trump threatened to decertify the private jet maker’s large-cabin planes "and all Aircraft made in Canada" and slap 50% import tariffs on new planes until Canada certified ‌the latest aircraft produced by U.S. rival Gulfstream.

www.reuters.com

Would love to see Bombardier start a lawsuit against the President.

 

[brihard]

On the Gulfstream thing- found this plausible explainer from a pilot on what this is about. I can’t vouch for it, but it’s useful.

I suspect shitposting tariff threats on social media isn’t the dispute resolution mechanism for certification issues; this is still a rather erratic response that seems unlikely to benefit the U.S. in the balance.

https://twitter.com/x/status/2017221350297886740

 

[Czech_pivo]

On the Gulfstream thing- found this plausible explainer from a pilot on what this is about. I can’t vouch for it, but it’s useful.

I suspect shitposting tariff threats on social media isn’t the dispute resolution mechanism for certification issues; this is still a rather erratic response that seems unlikely to benefit the U.S. in the balance.

https://twitter.com/x/status/2017221350297886740

Interesting read but the fellow didn't mention if or when the EU has approved those jets. Have they or have they not? If they did, when?

 

[dapaterson]

The last thing the flying public needs is politicians influencing aircraft certification and safety standards.

You mean like Boeing lobbying to get the FAA to permit them to self certify the 737MAX?