CAN-USA Tariff Strife (split from various pol threads)

[PrairieFella]

"or birth certificate". Not much point going on and on about passports when the fundamental document is there, too.

If someone loses a birth certificate, it can be replaced. If a voter lost all acceptable ID before an election and showing ID were required, there are processes for replacing those, too.

Providing proof of citizenship to register, and proof of identity at a polling place, are not horrible bars for voters to clear. I'm curious why it's such a bad policy for the US, but perfectly acceptable in many other countries.

Its effectively a poll tax. Passports arent cheap. Getting a birth certificate presumes you can afford a day off work, get done to the office with the proper substantiation you need to prove your identity and pay the fee and hope they receive it in time. The countries that do require standardized voter ID either make getting said ID low cost and easily available or just automatically issue them outright at the age of majority. I can get behind standardized voter ID in that scenario.

 

[Brad Sallows]

Its effectively a poll tax. Passports arent cheap. Getting a birth certificate presumes you can afford a day off work, get done to the office with the proper substantiation you need to prove your identity and pay the fee and hope they receive it in time. The countries that do require standardized voter ID either make getting said ID low cost and easily available or just automatically issue them outright at the age of majority. I can get behind standardized voter ID in that scenario.

If it's possible to lose a birth certificate or a passport, it's possible to lose anything.

"Providing proof of citizenship to register, and proof of identity at a polling place, are not horrible bars for voters to clear. I'm curious why it's such a bad policy for the US, but perfectly acceptable in many other countries."

Yet the "safety concerns" for democracy in the US go on. Americans are too stupid and/or careless.

 

[Eaglelord17]

If it's possible to lose a birth certificate or a passport, it's possible to lose anything.

"Providing proof of citizenship to register, and proof of identity at a polling place, are not horrible bars for voters to clear. I'm curious why it's such a bad policy for the US, but perfectly acceptable in many other countries."

Yet the "safety concerns" for democracy in the US go on. Americans are too stupid and/or careless.

Alternatively the government already knows who is a citizen. It should just be a matter of registering once online, (like Canada) showing a government issued ID (dvrs licence, etc.) when going to vote which is cross referenced with the pre-existing voter list, and away you go.

Intentionally trying to make the standard extremely high to suppress voting is not a good thing. Why must it be a passport or birth certificate? Seeking to disenfranchise new American citizens who don’t have the cash to spend on a passport?

 

[Brad Sallows]

Alternatively the government already knows who is a citizen. It should just be a matter of registering once online, (like Canada) showing a government issued ID (dvrs licence, etc.) when going to vote which is cross referenced with the pre-existing voter list, and away you go.

Intentionally trying to make the standard extremely high to suppress voting is not a good thing. Why must it be a passport or birth certificate? Seeking to disenfranchise new American citizens who don’t have the cash to spend on a passport?

Everything I've read so far indicates that passports and birth certificates would be options for proof of citizenship during registration. Voting (casting a ballot) would require proof of identity. That's where other ID comes in, driver's licence likely being the most common. Is there some confusion as to the difference between registration and voting, and the difference between the documentation required?

 

[brihard]

The new Gordie Howe Bridge will be charging considerably lower tolls than the Ambassador Bridge. I feel like we’re definitely gonna hear some whining on this one. Reminder that the owner of the Ambassador Bridge donated a bunch of money to Trump and was able to rent the President out as a bridge troll for a couple hours.

https://www.detroitnews.com/story/business/2026/03/11/gordie-howe-ambassador-bridge-toll-rates-how-much-are-they/89099085007/#

 

[PrairieFella]

Is the bridge going to be allowed to proceed now?

 

[OldSolduer]

A bridge troll lol.

We need some Billy Goats Gruff.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

If it's possible to lose a birth certificate or a passport, it's possible to lose anything.

"Providing proof of citizenship to register, and proof of identity at a polling place, are not horrible bars for voters to clear. I'm curious why it's such a bad policy for the US, but perfectly acceptable in many other countries."

Yet the "safety concerns" for democracy in the US go on. Americans are too stupid and/or careless.

The Democrats made sure to flood the US with illegals and then demanded States to issue them ID, so they could vote and made sure they knew who they should be voting for.

If the GOP was smart, they would do a amnesty for people that lived there illegally, but committed no crimes and had worked the majority of the 10+ years required to meet the amnesty. Those are the people that you want anyways. Then setup a good guestworker program where they can come in, work legally for a bit and then go home. That would push a lot of the Hispanic vote to the GOP.

 

[Seyek]

The Democrats made sure to flood the US with illegals and then demanded States to issue them ID, so they could vote and made sure they knew who they should be voting for.

If the GOP was smart, they would do a amnesty for people that lived there illegally, but committed no crimes and had worked the majority of the 10+ years required to meet the amnesty. Those are the people that you want anyways. Then setup a good guestworker program where they can come in, work legally for a bit and then go home. That would push a lot of the Hispanic vote to the GOP.

That's a bold and frankly ridiculous claim unless you have some evidence of an institutional effort by the Democrats to practice mass illegal voting. IDs don't equal votes, and each state has it's own process for registration and verification. The Heritage Foundation has a data set and map of illegal voting (which includes deceased voters, people submitting false absentee ballots, etc beyond just illegal immigrant voting attempts) and even including all the other types has a whopping...1620 cases (only 100 if you select the alien category specifically) going back to 1982, though that is only convictions. Almost universally the studies I've seen show it be effectively non-existent.

For some more details though, we have Republican states Utah and Georgia that conducted recent citizenship audits of their voter lists (outside of normal verification which varies by state but involves citizenship documents and/or cross referencing other databases at different levels of government to verify they are eligible to vote, and includes things like whether they're a felon, if they've died, if they've moved, etc.). Utah found 1 confirmed case of an illegal registered to vote and 486 people for whom they're missing paperwork out just over 2 million, and Georgia had 20 confirmed with another 156 they're missing records for, out of 8.2 million.

The republicans have controlled the white house, house of representatives and senate from 2003-2007, 2017-2019, and from last year to now yet seemed equally uninterested in doing anything about illegal immigration until recently, and then it looks largely performative. They went so far as to stop a bipartisan law based on what the Republicans were pushing for when Biden was still president. In terms of illegal immigrants in the USA, it hit a peak total estimate of about 14 million in 2023 (about 4.2% of the population). Which is outrageous, but in 2007 under a unified Republican Government it was 4.1% (12.2 million illegals, which dropped heavily after the financial crash). It seems the Republicans loved having illegals willing to work for cheap, and still do as there seems to be little appetite even now for cracking down on people employing them.

Bush wanted something like you mentioned, a mix of better security, guest worker programs, and paths to citizenship and has mentioned not getting it done as his biggest regret other than the Iraq war. I think we'd be in agreement that's the best way forward.

For context I have issues with mass illegal immigration (or legal mass migration in cases like our TFW and international student programs), the effects they have on suppressing wages, potential for criminals to abuse the systems, etc., but the notion that there's a mass illegal voting scheme is blatant conspiracy theory territory.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

When I look at the actions of the Democrat party, it's the only explanation that makes sense, along with suppressing wages in western States who depend on cheap labour.

 

[Lumber]

When I look at the actions of the Democrat party, it's the only explanation that makes sense, along with suppressing wages in western States who depend on cheap labour.

How is it the only explanation that makes sense? First, the massive increase in illegal immigration int he early 2020s (we can use that term now... sigh) was the result of a combination of post-COVID economic instability in Latin America, worsening political and criminal violence is several Latin American countries, and a perception that US border enforcement and asylum policies had become more permissive. This is well studied. Further, you've been shown that there is absolutely no evidence of these illegal immigrants are actually voting in any meaningful quantity.

But you can't come up with another explanation, so you result to "Democratic party conspiracy"?

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Let's be clear I think both major parties in the US are corrupt, slimy and incompetent. But I don't get the "Weekly Democrat insider report" So I have to infer their intent from their actions. The Dems both Federal and State level have long been easy on Illegal immigration, they have also pushed to get those illegals partly documented, so they be eligible to vote and then reminded them as to whom they should bow to.
Both the Dems and GOP for a long time also bowed to large agricultural interests, who wanted the illegals as cheap and easily abused labour. The GOP took the easy route and failed to do their job. The Dems did the same, but also worked out a system to grow their support in a way that undermines the very system they purport to protect.

 

[Brad Sallows]

Detecting vote fraud depends on standards and enforcement. Where standards are high and enforcement routine, the measure of vote fraud should be expected to be low. Where standards are less stringent and enforcement efforts range from little to none, the measure should also be expected to be low (authorities don't find what they don't look for), but the actual amount is probably greater.

Three things that are likely to be true: there is more vote fraud than people believe; vote fraud swings only a very few election results; vote fraud almost never amounts to enough to swing a major elected office or control of a legislative body.

 

[Genetk44]

The idea that the 2020 election was “stolen” and that there were massive numbers of fraudulent votes/voters as well as corruption on the vote-counting end has been consistently shown to not have happened . Furthermore, thanks to Trump himself and his maga minions constantly yelling about fake voters, mail-in voter fraud etc., etc., etc. for months in the lead-up to the election it ended-up as the most monitored, most closely scrutinized, most observer heavy election in living memory.