Canada and the cold war

[Nick1stJ]

Hi,

I was looking for info,links or books on Canada‘s involvement in the cold war and I thaught that the canadian armed forces would probably be the best place to ask and I was wondering if you could help me.

I seek info on these specific aspects but anything on the canadian involvement in the cold war would be fine:

-The canadian contribution to the vietnam war
-the impact of canada‘s financial aid on the colombo plan
-the impact of canadian involvement through the UN and peacekeeping missions in the fight against communism
-Anything on canadian military involvement in the cold war

Thanks in advance.

 

[winchable]

Nick,
During the Vietnam war, roughly 30,000 men came to Canada to avoid the draft. So in that sense there was some involvement. Also men from Canada joined the US armed forces (although I cannot give you an exact number as to how many), and faced just as much hostility upon their return to Canada as the American soldiers did, without any support from the government like the Us soldiers did. They formed groups and eventually got a start in informing people about their roles, and raising money for support.
There is a wall in Windsor Ontario dedicated to the Canadians who fought in the vietnam war, I believe it is called the North Wall, or something like that.

I‘m not very familiar with the colombo plan, here is a lesson plan created by the Canadian Department of Foreign affairs and international trade regarding that.
http://www.dfait-maeci.gc.ca/ciw-cdm/6divid_lesson_plan-en.asp

As for the last two topics, there are alot of people on this forum who have served in the cold war and would know alot more specifics about how canada was involved in the fight against Communism. Ie, our bases in West Germany ((I‘m pretty sure some posters were posted there.)

Canada contributed in general, by providing an early warning system to the defence of the continent by protecting the route over the arctic circle from russia, with the DEW line.

http://www.lswilson.ca/dewline.htm

A link to some information about the DEW line.

Our navy played quite a large role, I know on a personal note my father joined the navy to, among other reasons, fight the communists.
The navy was into anti soviet submarine, anti soviet surveillance warfare etc. As well as simply providing a visible force in the Atlantic, part of a Detente type of situation i believe.

As for the army‘s involvement like i said, many posters on this forum served in the army during the cold war and would be much better help then I was here, but this is a start.

 

[Danjanou]

An excellent starter book on Canadian‘s in Vietnam
is Unknown Warriors Canadians in the Vietnam War by Fred Gaffen (Dundurn Press Toronto 1990 ISBN 1 55002-073-0). It covers accounts of the estimated 12,000 to 30,000 Canadians who enlisted in the US military during the war in SEA and those who fought there.

By the way Che your numbers regarding US citizens who came north to avoid the draft are probably a little high.

Another good book worth looking at is War Without Battles Canada‘s NATO Brigade in Germany 1951-1993 by Sean M. Maloney(McGraw-Hill Ryerson 1997 ISBN: 0-9680441-0-7 / 0968044107)

I‘ve read the first and can recomend it. Have yet to sit down and read the second, but a glance at it suggests it may be a good read.

 

[winchable]

Yeah I couldn‘t find a good solid number on that, 30,000 was the one I came across the most.

 

[winchable]

http://www.commondreams.org/views01/0617-03.htm

It‘s a pretty left wing website, but it gives an even higher number.

Here‘s another one that puts people who dodged the draft all together at 20,000 and people who deserted the military at 12000

http://www.pressrepublican.com/Archive/2001/05_2001/05182001pb.htm

With the internet in general you have to be careful, the best idea is just to look into the books Danjanou suggested, definetly more concrete.

 

[Michael Dorosh]

Check with your local chapter of the Vietnam Veterans of Canada - there is an active branch in Calgary, for example - they may be able to provide more info.

WE STAND ON GUARD is a good book covering the Canadian military from before Confederation up to the end of the Cold War.

 

[Danjanou]

Che you have to realize that even the books I noted probably have bias inherent in them.

Gaffen‘s work could probably considered right wing and therefore the numbers he presents in regards to both Canadian‘s who served in SEA and draft dodgers who came north may be suspect (the first number inflated, the second minimized). He is after all trying to prove his arguments as are the left wing sources you noted.

Also remember Canada was not the only preferred destination for Americans avoiding the draft. Sweden and Morocco were also popular destinations. Mexico, most European nations and several Central American countries also had there share too.

 

[Gunnar]

Just remember, * bias * isn‘t a political viewpoint. If you are right-wing, but restrict yourself to provable facts to prove your points, your arguments may be wrong (because you may not be using the data correctly), but you aren‘t biased.

Simply because a political argument is being expressed doesn‘t make the data suspect. It is even possible for those on the left wing to make the occasional observation based on facts. It doesn‘t happen often . **Biased** reporting is reporting which mis-quotes, misuses or takes data out of context in order to prove a pre-determined conclusion. A good example of biased "reporting" would be Bowling for Columbine.

So if you‘re claiming a probable "bias", what do you base this probability on?

It bothers me that today anyone can claim that someone‘s arguments are "biased" without proof, thereby dismissing their viewpoint without answering or attempting to address the facts which underlie that opinion.

Cheers!

 

[Nick1stJ]

Thanks guys,that truly helped me out.

But
I‘d just like to know if canada have participated in any peacekeeping missions that had any real impact on the cold war(or at least against communist expansionism).

Hearing about the canadian contribution to the european defense and the role of canada‘s navy in the cold war would be nice too.

have canada had any role in the nuclear scene?Did we ever get the bomb?

 

[winchable]

We never had a need for the bomb, the Americans had and still have more then enough for us.
We do have nuclear powerplants as well as, don‘t quote me, an advanced nuclear research center at Chalk River.

The navy in the cold war, was as I said, very much involved in anti submarine warfare (I think that the ships we still have are all equipped primarily for anti-submarine warfare); As I believe that the soviets had a huge, huge submarine force, and that was the biggest fear at the time.
Ex-dragoon is navy right now, so he would be more help as to defining the role of the navy, but that‘s all I can recall from memory.

 

[Ex-Dragoon]

Our primary role is ASW but we have really gotten away from that with the CPFs and the 280s. Where we once basically only studied one aspect of naval warfare (which is all we could) we now have the Harpoon for ASuW (anti surface warfare) the SM-2 for AAW (anti air warfare). We became a jack of all trades navy instead of a master of one.

 

[Jungle]

Canada did have nuclear weapons in the past:

When Canada purchased the Honest John surface-to-surface missile system to equip its brigade in Europe, it also took the opportunity to upgrade its interceptor forces in Canada with the CF-101 Voodoo and the Bomarc surface-to-air missile. Controversy erupted when it was discovered that all three weapons systems would be fully capable of launching nuclear tipped warheads .

See here: Cold war
Nick1stJ, I suggest you visit that site, there is a lot of information about Canada‘s involvement in the cold war.

 

[winchable]

That is the first I‘ve heard of that jungle, thankyou!
Is that common knowledge that I missed out on because of birth date? Or is it something that is relatively unknown to most?
Also after reading, the site doesn‘t seem to mention where we got the nuclear warheads from, or where they went after we decided against arming with them, does anyone know?

 

[Jungle]

Everything was American-made; warheads and delivery systems.
It‘s not comon knowledge, because people don‘t like to think of Canada as a Military power. But there was a time when Canada played with the big boys...

 

[winchable]

Oh, that‘s probably my mistake, I was recalling my info from memory, I should have worded it: "canada never developed nuclear weapons."
That much is true, correct?

 

[muskrat89]

I had a couple of very close friends working with the Honest Johns

 

[jrhume]

I found a couple of interesting bits about the development of the atomic bomb and Canada.

1. At least some of the uranium ore used to produce the bombs used on Japan was mined in the Great Bear Lake region.

2. One article I ran across said that the Manhattan project coordinated activities in 39 sites in the US and Canada. The article has no listing of the sites, so I don‘t know how many were in Canada.

3. Another article says the project was a joint effort of Britain, the US and Canada. Again, no hard information beyond that.

I think it should be recalled that Canada was a very important ally, contributing large numbers of troops, equipment and technical expertise. It‘s hard to imagine that Canada would not have been part of a project this large. Some 140,000 civilians worked on the project, in one manner or another. Some of them were probably Canadian.

I‘m sure there are books which would provide much more information.

Jim

 

[Spr.Earl]

Jim in Trail,B.C. up untill 2 yrs ago the building where the heavy water was produced for the Bomb in WW2 was still standing.

They brought in a contractor to tear it down,but alas the old construction method‘s of the day were to much.I heard the wall‘s were 6‘ thick and the floor‘s were 3 to 4‘ thick and it was literaly built like a brick s@#t house!

Also during the Cold War,Comox here on the West Coast did have Nuke‘s on the base.

 

[Art Johnson]

A number of Canadian Soldiers were involved in A Bomb testing during the Cold War. During one exercise they were required to proceed through the area where a bomb had been detonated a short time after the explosion. At least one soldier, Cpl., Ken McOrmand MM, of 2 Bn The RCR claimed he developed cancer from the experience. It took a long time but the government finally accepted his claim and he received a pension.

 

[Nick1stJ]

Ok thanks.

Does anyone know the exact role of the armed forces in case of communist invasions?
Like if the USSR decided to invade west germany before the 60s,what would be the role of Canada‘s Army?