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Canada moves to 2% GDP end of FY25/26 - PMMC
- Thread starter Maxman1
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McG
Army.ca Legend
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If we figure out a way to hybridize PS and PRes service for specific roles, that would make sense. We don't need the day-to-day GS sustainment to be military on the day-to-day, but it would need to be something that could be mobilized at the same time as the equipment that it supports.
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I agree. The mobilizable brigade service battalions should be Class A with a small RegF cadre.
The day to day regional logistics and maintenance depots should be RegF and civilian.
Personally I would like to see two Classes of RegF service.
Class U would have unrestricted terms of service exactly as all the RegF currently have.
Class R would sign up on restricted contracts that would limit their postings to within a defined geographic area - like Toronto's greater metropolitans area. It would have some limitations (maybe pay, benefits, promotion opportunities) and would guarantee the ability to enrol in a place with long term stability close to family with spousal career opportunities but yet be fully liable for operational deployments and the like.
I think that under the current legislation the CAF needs to find its "Class Bs" from amongst the RegF.
The CAF currently thinks of the reserves as a "what have you done for me today?" force. I see them as a "break glass in case of emergency" force.
I'm not sure what you are thinking of here.
When I think of the day to day "base" logistics and maintenance structure of the CAF (particulalry the army) I see two components:
a) the civilian side to provide strong institutional corporate memory and high end skills in a relatively stable environment; and
b) the military one rotating occasionally between the base structure and the field force in order to gain experience as part of their career development, to provide some level of service and to be able to be mobilized in an emergency.
Striking the right balance is the tough part.
I'm just getting to the end of my "Unsustainable" rewrite. I'll send you a draft in a while for a critique. It's purpose isn't to create a model army even though I do at the end as a demonstration of what I visualize. It uses the existing RegF field force structure and the 30,500 ARes plus HS Res and MP Res. In short four divisions are quite doable.
There are 4 hybrid sustainment brigades and a medical brigade with a total of 22 hybrid logistics/service battalions and 8 hybrid medical battalions. The non-field support structure consists of 5 static, RegF/Civ regional support groups with a total of 14 static RegF/Civ, regional support battalions (these vary in size depending of the number of units that they need to provide day to day support to).
Loggies and sigs will require the greatest amount of recruiting to fill the ranks.
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I am suggesting that garrison support needs to be heavily civilian, and incentivizing them to also be class A means the best of both worlds, a trained base that can mobilize that's also a surge CAF capacity.
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In my way the easiest way to do that is to that is a program where the individual signs a contract which will at the end of high school:
1) put him through basic training that summer as a reservist on full salary;
2) in September enroll him in a community college program that trains him in the desired trade (I tend to favour automenchanics as the most needed trade). The army pays his tuition and fees but no salary while at school;
3) the next summer he has full employment as a reservist getting his DP1 training at full salary;
3) repeat for another year if necessary;
4) at the end of his last summer of training he owes the army three years of obligatory primary reserve service (followed by three years supplementary reserve service) for the training he got at the rate of one weekend per months and two weeks in the summer AND he is offered a contract to work for DND as a civilian journeyman.
5) when his three years primary reserve service are up offer her a reenlistment bonus for another three years (or whatever) of obligatory primary reserve service.
The downside to having a civilian DND worker also as a reservist is that its fine in peacetime but when mobilization comes you have to choose where you want him. It's not a great idea if your base is responsible for training, and kitting out new recruits and maintaining training vehicles if suddenly half of your workforce is mobilized and deployed.
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That depends.
Going from Mr. Blogins to Cpl/MCpl Blogins on day one of mobilization has benefits too, even if Cpl/MCpl Blogins keeps working at the same base. Mobilization doesn't mean everybody is out the door overseas on day 1, lots of mobilized people will be turned into instructors in Canada.
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But what if Mr Bloggins is a section commander in a battalion that has been placed on active service and is scheduled to ship out. Somebody loses - either the base or the battalion. You need to find a replacement for him in one or the other of the two jobs he holds.
It's simple math. During peacetime he splits his 24 hour day and seven day week into two slices. When mobilized he's either full-time in one or ful-time in the other leaving one post unmanned.
You only win if the gamble that war never comes pays off.
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Simple. Presumably the Base Service Unit that Mr. Bloggins is working at as a civilian also has military personnel. Simply make him a Reservist in that same unit so when he is mobilized he simply shows up to work at the same unit but in uniform.But what if Mr Bloggins is a section commander in a battalion that has been placed on active service and is scheduled to ship out. Somebody loses - either the base or the battalion. You need to find a replacement for him in one or the other of the two jobs he holds.
It's simple math. During peacetime he splits his 24 hour day and seven day week into two slices. When mobilized he's either full-time in one or ful-time in the other leaving one post unmanned.
You only win if the gamble that war never comes pays off.
This might actually be a good role for the proposed Mobilization Reserve. Mr. Bloggins might not want to spend a weekend a month and two weeks a year doing as a Reservist the same thing that he does in his regular day job. But after completing a period of basic military training he might be fine spending a week each year updating his military qualifications so that if mobilization happens he can put on a uniform and continue working in his existing unit.
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There is no perfect system. If you mobilize a battalion someone somewhere is losing a person. Who's to say mobilization won't exclude Mr. Bloggins' job from being called-up. It happened the only times we even mobilized before, there is no reason to not think it would happen again in the future.But what if Mr Bloggins is a section commander in a battalion that has been placed on active service and is scheduled to ship out. Somebody loses - either the base or the battalion. You need to find a replacement for him in one or the other of the two jobs he holds.
It's simple math. During peacetime he splits his 24 hour day and seven day week into two slices. When mobilized he's either full-time in one or ful-time in the other leaving one post unmanned.
You only win if the gamble that war never comes pays off.
Also, as @GR66 mentioned, the idea I was supporting was based on the idea of the person doing their DND day job in the reserves, not doing some other trade. We don't necessarily need DND mechanics who moonlight as infantry, but having DND mechanics who can put on the uniform as trained reservists and support peacetime and wartime operations is likely quite useful.
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Our current reserve model is for pers to join their unit to go fight or support other units to fight. The suggestion does not change the fact that the individual's unit would be short their man or possibly many men.
This is a different situation and using a different reserve model. To an extent its the same problem. If his Mobilization Reserve unit is tasked with providing C-UAV protection at the local airport does he do two shifts - one during the day at one job, the other at night at the other job? Or does one job go unfilled?
I'm actually warming to the idea of a Mobilization Reserve the more crap that I hear coming out of the White House.
Don't get me wrong. I'm not against the idea of having people in critical industries being reservists, but one has to recognize the second order effects. I've always been a fan of using university and community college funding assistance to leverage getting more health care workers into the reserves. It's great day to day, but in the event of a disaster or war the issue then becomes: where does the individual provide a greater service to his country - in his civilian job in a civilian hospital or in the military deployed with her field ambulance? In the end we're robbing Peter to pay Paul.
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I support the idea too that if the person is a mechanic in his day job then we should recruit him as a mechanic.
Still, if his day job is as a civvy mechanic at a base then we already have him doing the job. Are we taking him into the reserves simply so that he can't get out of the job in time of war? Something in that nature can already be done under the Emergencies Act if the government puts its mind to it.
I think one of the reasons I'm a bit balky on the critical worker concept (especially as to primary reservists) is that I don't think that the CAF has the wherewithal to come up with a decent system to resolve such priorities and everything would degenerate to an ad hoc local solution that would please no one.
There are occasions where I'm a "glass half full" type of person.
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In my way the easiest way to do that is to that is a program where the individual signs a contract which will at the end of high school:
1) put him through basic training that summer as a reservist on full salary;
2) in September enroll him in a community college program that trains him in the desired trade (I tend to favour automenchanics as the most needed trade). The army pays his tuition and fees but no salary while at school;
3) the next summer he has full employment as a reservist getting his DP1 training at full salary;
3) repeat for another year if necessary;
4) at the end of his last summer of training he owes the army three years of obligatory primary reserve service (followed by three years supplementary reserve service) for the training he got at the rate of one weekend per months and two weeks in the summer AND he is offered a contract to work for DND as a civilian journeyman.
5) when his three years primary reserve service are up offer her a reenlistment bonus for another three years (or whatever) of obligatory primary reserve service.
The downside to having a civilian DND worker also as a reservist is that its fine in peacetime but when mobilization comes you have to choose where you want him. It's not a great idea if your base is responsible for training, and kitting out new recruits and maintaining training vehicles if suddenly half of your workforce is mobilized and deployed.
You don" have to choose where to employ those civilians. They are going to be over-worked doig the exact same job in the exact same place but at a higher pace, under threat and under orders.
That under threat bit would allow a civilian to defend themselves at their work station under the protection of the NDA act. It would also put all those clerks, secretaries, assistants, storeskeepers, truckdrivers, backhoe operators, doctors and lawyers under orders and compulsion when the balloon went up.
In peacetime they get to live a civilian life. In wartime they don't get to run away.
I believe the Brits' RFA braodly works on those principles.
If you want wartime rifles that you don't have to pay for in peace time then that is your basic primary reserve, People that have been trained for combat and then returned to civilian life subject to recall.
Edit: I am saying the same thing as @GR66 and @Furniture.
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I think you misunderstand me with regard to the Mobilization Reserve. One person. One Position. He/She is a Civilian DND worker filling a position in a static base support unit. They are also a member of the Mobilization Reserve. They have received basic military training and do one week annual refresher training. Upon mobilization the mixed military/civilian base support unit becomes a fully manned military unit.
You could identify certain units that are mixed military/civilian in peacetime but would need to be fully military in wartime to have becoming a member of the Mobilization Reserve being a requirement for the Civilian employees. Maybe not all civilian employees, but at least for the portion of positions that would need to be filled to mobilize the unit in wartime.
This obviously wouldn't be a model for the full 300,000 member Mobilization Reserve but it could certainly be an element of it...maintenance units, supply units, transport units, medical units, etc. as a Phase 1 using DND employees. Phase it in over time with new hires.
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One of the things that I really like about this forum is that you can debate issues with folks and come away with a slightly nuanced way that changes your mind or at least makes you appreciate that we don't all think alike.
I do understand what you are proposing. My reticence is based on what I said to @Furniture above. I don't think the CAF/DND has the ability to create and maintain the type of system that you are thinking of, and which I agree could be useful to DND.
Tell me if I'm wrong, but the bottom line on what you propose is a reserve system whereby, amongst other things, a civilian worker for DND simply stays put in their job when "mobilized." It ensures that his labour continues on behalf of DND.
In the mean time - until that mobilization occurs - you go through administrative processes and provide a modicum of military training, all of which has a need for hundreds if not thousands of full time and part time staff to keep running. That's where my hang-up is.
In my head you can keep critical workers in place with an order in council under the Emergencies Act without all of the previous administrative overhead.
Sorry - I've got to get some writing done. I'll check back in later.
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Keeping in mind that we're discussing a miniscule proportion of the potential members of a Mobilization Reserve and likely even a small sub-set of Civilian DND employees.One of the things that I really like about this forum is that you can debate issues with folks and come away with a slightly nuanced way that changes your mind or at least makes you appreciate that we don't all think alike.
I do understand what you are proposing. My reticence is based on what I said to @Furniture above. I don't think the CAF/DND has the ability to create and maintain the type of system that you are thinking of, and which I agree could be useful to DND.
Tell me if I'm wrong, but the bottom line on what you propose is a reserve system whereby, amongst other things, a civilian worker for DND simply stays put in their job when "mobilized." It ensures that his labour continues on behalf of DND.
In the mean time - until that mobilization occurs - you go through administrative processes and provide a modicum of military training, all of which has a need for hundreds if not thousands of full time and part time staff to keep running. That's where my hang-up is.
In my head you can keep critical workers in place with an order in council under the Emergencies Act without all of the previous administrative overhead.
Sorry - I've got to get some writing done. I'll check back in later.
What we're really talking about is sections on a base where there are mixed military/civilian members currently undertaking roles during peacetime where there may be a need to have that role undertaken completely by military personnel during peacetime. That may include roles in maintenance and supply, etc. where there may be a requirement to deploy the entire unit or a sub-unit to the field in support of operations (either domestically or overseas).
A civilian clerk working in the BOR for example would have no need to be in uniform to continue to do their job. A transport driver or mechanic that may have to deploy to service forward units in a major national disaster where there is civil unrest or in case of insurgency may need to be under arms and under military command/discipline to perform their job.
These few people I'd think would be the easiest to administer in a Mobilization Reserve type system. As GOC employees they already have employment rules that cover military leave. They already work on base where there are training facilities, ranges, classrooms, etc. The entire group of civilian Mobilization Reserve employees on a given base could likely complete their one week refresher training all at the same time on a single course.
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That's basically true of the entire armed services. If it's too small to deter war entirely, you lose.
I would rather try and find 50% of the staff verses 100% of the staff in time of Urgency. Its risk management. One that currently we take a lot of risk with very little management........ You never loose if you have a trained person either deployed or working at home fixing gear, training others etc.But what if Mr Bloggins is a section commander in a battalion that has been placed on active service and is scheduled to ship out. Somebody loses - either the base or the battalion. You need to find a replacement for him in one or the other of the two jobs he holds.
It's simple math. During peacetime he splits his 24 hour day and seven day week into two slices. When mobilized he's either full-time in one or ful-time in the other leaving one post unmanned.
You only win if the gamble that war never comes pays off.
It would be interesting to see if we can actually make anything work reasonably.
Great article in the Economist talking about DND/CAF planning driven by new threats emanating from the US. Not invasion. But things like a surge in migrants. Or the US not intervening when Russia lands in the Arctic.
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