Canada moves to 2% GDP end of FY25/26 - PMMC

[Remius]

Could this finally mean some centralized ARes leadership under a Div Commander ?

One Div commander would help.

And a separate budget would be good as well.

 

[PrairieFella]

My big question is kit. Does a reserve division look like what we have now? Does it get equipped as a light div? So many questions.

 

[boredtoon]

very likely, I have heard though that units in the same geo area, if severely under strength will be tactically grouped together until such time as units get their numbers up. So no more battalions with only a platoon

They already do this. The Brockville Rifles and PWORs were tactically grouped as of 2023 when I was working with some of them. One LCol commanded both units. Every 3 years they switch which regiment the CO came from, the DCO was always from the other regiment. At the time, both units were sitting at about 110 all ranks (bands excluded).

 

[dapaterson]

Could this finally mean some centralized ARes leadership under a Div Commander ?

Please no.

 

[MilEME09]

They already do this. The Brockville Rifles and PWORs were tactically grouped as of 2023 when I was working with some of them. One LCol commanded both units. Every 3 years they switch which regiment the CO came from, the DCO was always from the other regiment. At the time, both units were sitting at about 110 all ranks (bands excluded).

Sounds like this will be more extensive then just one or two units of the same type

 

[OldSolduer]

Sounds like this will be more extensive then just one or two units of the same type

We did that in Winnipeg in 2010 or so, it worked for a bit then the units were tactically ungrouped.

What needs to happen a few regiments need to be reduced to Nil Strength.

 

[daftandbarmy]

You really like mil bands eh ? lol

Call it PTSD: Post Traumatic Symphony Disorder

 

[MilEME09]

We did that in Winnipeg in 2010 or so, it worked for a bit then the units were tactically ungrouped.

What needs to happen a few regiments need to be reduced to Nil Strength.

in some areas sure, if you have multiple units of the same type, but in the Prairies? maybe not so much, some areas are seeing expansion out here, such as 20th Field is in the process of standing up a battery in Calgary because a platoon worth already is in the city for school or occupying other positions.

 

[boredtoon]

Sounds like this will be more extensive then just one or two units of the same type

There's a threshold based upon enrolled strength vs establishment. Both units were under 45%, but I don't know what the actual threshold is. Theres other tactically grouped units across the ARes, but i just don't have them on hand.

Tactically grouping units of different types doesn't make sense. If you take a reserve infantry regiment of 100 people, and a reserve arty regiment of 60 people, and group them, you still only have an infantry regiment of 100 people, and an artillery regiment of 60. But if you take 2 or 3 infantry regiments of 100 people, and group them, now you have a regiment of 300, and can actually achieve yearly BTS training targets, and run courses.

 

[Remius]

There's a threshold based upon enrolled strength vs establishment. Both units were under 45%, but I don't know what the actual threshold is. Theres other tactically grouped units across the ARes, but i just don't have them on hand.

Several of the units in that brigade are tactically grouped. For the infantry units for example, Northern, River and Highland tactical groups. So 6 infantry units.

 

[dapaterson]

And two of three Artillery units in 33 CBG as well.

 

[GR66]

Could this finally mean some centralized ARes leadership under a Reg Force Div Commander ?

FTFY

 

[Fabius]

Few miscellaneous details that I am aware of, subject to change.

1. The War Fighting Div, ie Reg Force will still have all its domestic IRU responsibilities.

2. There will be a Training Division. It will own all the army schools. Basically a CADTC.

3. The Continental Division will be domestic operations but not warfighting. I would not expect it to be thought of as having any role in the defence of North America. It’s fires and floods. Its war fighting function will be individual augmentation to the Reg Force.

4. The Continental Division will still have regional commands. What that looks like is a good question.

5. The sustainment Division will in effect be the CDSGs and the institutional support stuff.



Some thoughts.
The good;
There is recognition that the CA leadership won’t get it 100% right but we need to change. We can fix stuff as we start to evolve the force structure.

Developing a warfighting divisional plan is highly needed.


The bad;

Despite saying the Army is one army the split of a reg Div and a Res Div is unlikely to make that a reality. Best case is it doesn’t get worse, most likely is it does.

Having stated that we are going to form a warfighting division and draw out the division units needed has not been accompanied by an analysis of the corp level support units needed to sustain the division. Ties into the point about the Res and Reg divisions being treated as entirely separate stand alone divisions vs an army.

The Light Infantry Regiment being grouped into the Warfighting Division makes little sense. The tasks are different and this will merely scale up the problems currently existing with the light Bns being in the Mech Bdes.

It’s undefined what this warfighting division is, ie is it an armoured division, an infantry division etc. Not a show stopper but it would help to define the equipment requirements.

The CMBGs might not be Bde Groups anymore with enablers being grouped into the protection and sustainment Bdes.

I think that this plan although good is going to truely test the ability of the Army to execute change. So far my interactions with this lead me to believe that the Army is not effective in communicating with the force. That will hamper this. It’s a balancing act between planning by committee and planning in isolation.

This will involve a multi year restructuring that must survive contact with multiple changes of command at the CCA and CDS level. That needs to be carefully planned and managed if this will have a chance to succeed.

There is a sense that this will free up PYs from the existing Div HQs. I think that’s naive as we are going from in effect a 5 Div HQ structure to a 4 Div structure, with one division being a full up warfighting division HQ that will likely require at least double to triple the PYs currently in any one of our administrative division HQs.

There is a lot of infrastructure money needed for the new reg force units being planned. Yes the timelines are out to 2035 but for infrastructure that’s not a lot of time. It’s enough but we can’t afford to waste time.

 

[PrairieFella]

Dark times for the reservists if your assessment is correct @Fabius. I tend to agree that things may get even worse for reservists in terms of the provisionment and vision required to maintain warfighting skills. Let's hope we don't become a lightly armed Peace Corps haha.

 

[Rifleman62]

Could this finally mean some centralized ARes leadership under a Reg Force Div Commander ?

A new career Reg F MGen establishment position. Could be non cbt arms as it is administrative only.

 

[boredtoon]

3. The Continental Division will be domestic operations but not warfighting. I would not expect it to be thought of as having any role in the defence of North America. It’s fires and floods. Its war fighting function will be individual augmentation to the Reg Force.

I disagree with this. I think the continental division will primarily handle domestic operations, but that won't be it's focus. If you tell the reserves that they're not training for war, they're training for dom ops, a lot will leave and I don't think it will be possible to recruit up to the 100k expanded PRes they are talking about if the PRes becomes a forest fires and floods force.

Fortunately, the CA Modernization Order specifies a layered ARes mobilization framework to include tactical and operational and strategic reservice mobilization. That is more than individual augmentation after the tactical level.

 

[MilEME09]

I disagree with this. I think the continental division will primarily handle domestic operations, but that won't be it's focus. If you tell the reserves that they're not training for war, they're training for dom ops, a lot will leave and I don't think it will be possible to recruit up to the 100k expanded PRes they are talking about if the PRes becomes a forest fires and floods force.

Fortunately, the CA Modernization Order specifies a layered ARes mobilization framework to include tactical and operational and strategic reservice mobilization. That is more than individual augmentation after the tactical level.

dont forget this 100k PRes, is the PRes, not the ARes, a lot of people here are using those two terms interchangably when they are not. PRes includes the NAVRES, AIRRES, and rangers.

 

[Fabius]

The layered mobilization framework isn’t necessarily new. Force Augmentation, Force Enhancement, Force Expansion and National Mobilization have existed for a while. It’s the Army’s concept of what those mean that’s important.

I am sure that the Reserves will continue to train their individual warfighting functions as they do now even if the continental division is not a warfighting division. However that doesn’t imply that they are structured correctly to enable the army to fight at the division level under a force enhancement or force expansion mobilization.

I think the army’s vision of both enhancement and expansion is individual augmentation and perhaps formed sub units. I have seen no indication that the army is thinking of it as a 2nd fires Bde, a theatre sustainment Bde or a theatre engineer Bde.

It will be interesting and insightful to see where the continental division construct evolves to.

 

[boredtoon]

dont forget this 100k PRes, is the PRes, not the ARes, a lot of people here are using those two terms interchangably when they are not. PRes includes the NAVRES, AIRRES, and rangers.

While true, the ARes makes up the bulk of the PRes. There are currently 30k PRes members, 20.5k of which are the ARes, almost 5k are the rangers. 2k Air Res, and 4.4k NavRes. If you scale that ratio to 100k Pres, that is 66K ARes members, 16.6K Rangers, 4k Air Res, and 14.6k Nav Res.

The layered mobilization framework isn’t necessarily new. Force Augmentation, Force Enhancement, Force Expansion and National Mobilization have existed for a while. It’s the Army’s concept of what those mean that’s important.

I am sure that the Reserves will continue to train their individual warfighting functions as they do now even if the continental division is not a warfighting division. However that doesn’t imply that they are structured correctly to enable the army to fight at the division level under a force enhancement or force expansion mobilization.

It will be interesting and insightful to see where the continental division construct evolves to.

It kind of is. There hasn't been a mobilization plan since the end of the cold war 34 years ago. I suspect that the continental division will be largely an administrative division, and the brigades will be more operational/employable. I imagine if Canada needs a second deployable division to go to war, they will build a new div HQ and give it brigades, rather than push the continental div structure out the door.

 

[Fabius]

I would be surprised if the reserve Bdes are restructured to be operationally employable. We should find out this fall.
I do think that the Army’s seriousness about being one army will be evident in the presence or absence of specific reserve protection, sustainment, engineer and fires Bdes. Simply maintaining the CBG generic structure doesn’t help the army fight at the division level.