Canada moves to 2% GDP end of FY25/26 - PMMC

[Eaglelord17]

So that's CFLTC scheduling then. I would put ARes MMTs on a combat storesman course and call that a Army reserve QL3.

I bet it comes down to a lack of instructors during the summer. They have a hard time getting reservists to come in and take those taskings.

When I did my Supply QL3 in 2016 we ran a full sized english platoon and a half full french platoon. They were also supposed to run a second full sized english platoon but couldn’t find 2 instructors in the whole CAF to make that happen.

I know at least one person who released due to being unable to get the training (really burned bridges with them and their employer too as they had to last minute beg them for their job back and the employer had already found temp labour).

Ways this could have worked out better for the CAF as a whole:

1) Make two CAF members instruct (be it Reg Force or Class B members on other postings), this would have provided the max number of students trained and in turn resulted in the best result for the CAF as the return on 20 more trained Sup Techs would be greater than the loss of those two Sup Techs working somewhere for the 2 months in the summer.

2) They could have rebalanced the courses as at least 8 of my english platoon where bilingual so could have brought 8 more students into the english platoon and sent the other 8 to the french platoon which had the room.

3) Just not ran the french platoon and instead ran two full strength english platoons as there would have been more trained students afterwards. This isn’t about the language it’s about the amount of qualified people.

Getting Reservists to train other reservists for two months in the summer is stupid from a organizational standpoint. How many civilians normally have the summer off to do so? Students and Teachers. Everyone else is generally working. You might get the odd Reservist who is working part time and odd jobs who is regularly available but it isn’t something I would count on.

 

[mariomike]

Heavy Mobile Equipment Mechanic at Fairchild AFB, Washington - Indefinite Appointment Full Time - Starting at $29.22 per hour (WG10)

About the same as here, taking exchange rate into consideration.

HEAVY EQUIPMENT TECHNICIAN
Hourly Rate: $41.46

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jobs.toronto.ca

 

[PrairieFella]

When I did my Supply QL3 in 2016 we ran a full sized english platoon and a half full french platoon. They were also supposed to run a second full sized english platoon but couldn’t find 2 instructors in the whole CAF to make that happen.

I know at least one person who released due to being unable to get the training (really burned bridges with them and their employer too as they had to last minute beg them for their job back and the employer had already found temp labour).

Ways this could have worked out better for the CAF as a whole:

1) Make two CAF members instruct (be it Reg Force or Class B members on other postings), this would have provided the max number of students trained and in turn resulted in the best result for the CAF as the return on 20 more trained Sup Techs would be greater than the loss of those two Sup Techs working somewhere for the 2 months in the summer.

2) They could have rebalanced the courses as at least 8 of my english platoon where bilingual so could have brought 8 more students into the english platoon and sent the other 8 to the french platoon which had the room.

3) Just not ran the french platoon and instead ran two full strength english platoons as there would have been more trained students afterwards. This isn’t about the language it’s about the amount of qualified people.

Getting Reservists to train other reservists for two months in the summer is stupid from a organizational standpoint. How many civilians normally have the summer off to do so? Students and Teachers. Everyone else is generally working. You might get the odd Reservist who is working part time and odd jobs who is regularly available but it isn’t something I would count on.

Its probably time to start some Div wide or atleast Army wide full time ARes courses for the various trades. The demographics of the Reserves are no longer young students in university, you're more likely to find yuppies or blue collar workers. Especially with those blue collar workers they'd be far more likely to be able to get time off in the winter when things are slow. Might not be worth it but a pilot project might have some interesting results.

 

[Furniture]

Getting Reservists to train other reservists for two months in the summer is stupid from a organizational standpoint.

The problem with trying to use mostly RegF is that summer is the same time period they are moving, or looking to spend vacation time with their families.

 

[PrairieFella]

The problem with trying to use mostly RegF is that summer is the same time period they are moving, or looking to spend vacation time with their families.

Can they not be compo'd though? Perhaps its the civilian in me that thinks its perfectly reasonable to have operational needs dictate holiday time and move their holidays a month or two to the left or right so that we can meet institutional goals.

 

[Cloud Cover]

The TB ministers would have to establish such an allowance. There may be areas where CDS or another position could be delegated some authorities within the structure of the allowance.

Delegating into a black hole is the go to standard, is it not?

 

[mariomike]

Getting Reservists to train other reservists for two months in the summer is stupid from a organizational standpoint.

Even two weeks is not without some friction.

Employees can take a leave of absence with pay, for the two week period of absence, to attend the Canadian Armed Forces Reserve Training Program.

What it doesn't say is the senior partner complaining to the junior, "You're the reason I cant take my kids to the effing cottage , so you can go play soldier."

 

[Furniture]

Can they not be compo'd though? Perhaps its the civilian in me that thinks its perfectly reasonable to have operational needs dictate holiday time and move their holidays a month or two to the left or right so that we can meet institutional goals.

It can be done, but it is likely to be a dissatisfier. The value of traing a few more reservists would need to be weighed against the potential losses incurred in the RegF.

 

[PrairieFella]

It can be done, but it is likely to be a dissatisfier. The value of traing a few more reservists would need to be weighed against the potential losses incurred in the RegF.

2 dudes (the number previously referenced) being pulled to be able to train a platoon is a no brainer. If even an eighth of that platoon climbs the ladder to be able to train other reservists its a win to move some block leave from July to August.

 

[Furniture]

2 dudes (the number previously referenced) being pulled to be able to train a platoon is a no brainer. If even an eighth of that platoon climbs the ladder to be able to train other reservists its a win to move some block leave from July to August.

That is a specific solution to a small and specific problem, not an institutional change to facilitate reserve training.

Also, given the branch/occupation in question couldn't muster two additional people, I'd say that finding them isn't as simple as you might imagine.

 

[MacNav63]

Someone working 14 days a month is working 70% of full time for less than 50% of full time pay. That is a foundational problem.

The RCAF is abusing their part time personnel and, by calling them "reserve" is misstating what they represent - a reserve should be able to surge, but a group already committed at 70% or more does not represent a capability that can surge or grow.

Maybe why the original term for them was the RCAF Auxiliary? Which is still the term used in the UK.

 

[KevinB]

The problem with trying to use mostly RegF is that summer is the same time period they are moving, or looking to spend vacation time with their families.

Summer training for the Reaervists is a large period

Basically May-Aug

Summer Leave is at best 5 weeks, so you have a pretty large bracket.

Most Reserve course are in 1 month (20-25 training day classes).
So if you need to use the Reg Force (and I’d say that would be the best option) you have basically 66% availability (2 of 3 months).
Yes there will be APS issues (but let’s be honest one doesn’t need even 50% of the Reg Force to run PRes stuff - and yes there is a larger burden at the MCpl and higher ranks.

 

[Eaglelord17]

That is a specific solution to a small and specific problem, not an institutional change to facilitate reserve training.

Also, given the branch/occupation in question couldn't muster two additional people, I'd say that finding them isn't as simple as you might imagine.

Failure to train is a failure to progress.

My civilian employer is going though this (as is most skilled trades) where they failed to train apprentices for so long just robbing tradesmen from each other that they now are critically short.

They keep arguing that they don’t have the manning to train, but that mentality is what got us to where we are. Focusing on training matters more for the long term and future success than what work you will get out of that worker in the short term.

In the CAFs case maybe shut some bases temporarily if we lack the manning. Consolidate where we need to and focus on what matters most instead of failing at everything.

The problem with trying to use mostly RegF is that summer is the same time period they are moving, or looking to spend vacation time with their families.

Where I work I get two weeks in ‘prime time’ (May-Oct, Christmas week, March Break) with a limit on how many people can be off at any given time. This is to balance out how many people are off during the year as the work never stops.

Maybe the CAF should consider similar policies (be it rotating years as to who is working those times, etc.), to ensure that those critical tasks (which training is) are done.

 

[YZT580]

Can they not be compo'd though? Perhaps its the civilian in me that thinks its perfectly reasonable to have operational needs dictate holiday time and move their holidays a month or two to the left or right so that we can meet institutional goals.

they are entitled to their entitlements. Leave is based upon seniority. Generally your senior people are the ones most qualified to instruct. They are also the ones the system is trying to hold on to. Tell them their summer leave is now in May and you will be handling a whole whack of retirements

 

[markppcli]

2 dudes (the number previously referenced) being pulled to be able to train a platoon is a no brainer. If even an eighth of that platoon climbs the ladder to be able to train other reservists its a win to move some block leave from July to August.

When I was in Bn it would have been very rare for us to have less than two NCOs per platoon tasked out over the summer. Our summer block leaves are also off set by IRU tasking: A coy goes from vanguard to follow to leave, B coy goes from leave to vanguard to follow on, etc etc across the Bde. Then we have to consider collective training blocks being April to May and September to October. I know it’s a really pleasant idea to imagine that guys in the regular army are just sitting around waiting for tasks, Sam Hughes called us barroom layabouts and there’s a few in here that hold similar views, however in my experience I averaged 200 days away a year. At a certain point if the reserves want to be seen as a self sufficient organization, and for some reason they do, they need to be able to train their own people.

To your previous comment the whole point of block leave is that the formed units are available for tasks and training with a minimum of disruption. Off set leave increases disruption.

 

[Good2Golf]

Someone working 14 days a month is working 70% of full time for less than 50% of full time pay. That is a foundational problem.

The RCAF is abusing their part time personnel and, by calling them "reserve" is misstating what they represent - a reserve should be able to surge, but a group already committed at 70% or more does not represent a capability that can surge or grow.

That’s some awesome ‘ARes is better’ cherry picking, right there.

Class A and B get 92.8% of a RegF daily rate equivalent. You’re injecting RegF and Class C weekend and annual leave factors into things to make the day-rate Class A and term B look particularly downtrodden. That’s disingenuous.

And guess what? Lots of Air Reserve folks are happy doing as many Class a days or Class B terms as they wish and don’t feel, as you say, “abused.”

You’re also using the Army’s definition of ‘Reserve’ (B-GL-300-001/FP-001 Section 748, p 7-58 IIRC) although we couldn’t fault you because even the CAF has been Army-ized to the point where its public-facing definition (Help Centre | Canadian Armed Forces) of the reserves starts with saying what the regular force is (in Navy, Army and Air Force) in terms of environment (all of them, well, less SOF), trade and getting to OFP, then describes the reserves as…joining a Regiment…

When joining the Primary Reserve Force (part-time employment), you sign up with a Regiment (which is an individual Reserve unit attached to an element) for a given trade. You would complete your training in the Reserves in a similar manner to the Regular Force, but outside of training you would be located in that specific Reserve unit, and never be obligated to be relocated to a different base. Typically in the Reserves you work one night per week and some weekends, but likely not more than 12 days in any calendar month. There are also some opportunities for full-time employment as a Reserve member, but these are voluntary options, and typically they are available after you have reached your Operationally Functional Point (OFP). For specific information on potential full-time opportunities, you would need to enquire with your local Reserve unit: any Reserve full-time employment would be highly dependent upon your chosen trade and geographical location. While there is no set contract of service, the expectation for each Reserve member is to stay in long enough to reach a fully-trained status, and then contribute on a month-to-month basis for as long as desired.

If only every one could hope to be treated as well as an Army primary reservist…#daretodream

 

[FJAG]

Ask the State Governors what the primary role of their National Guard is and I would suggest you get a different answer.

Regardless of the historical background, regardless of the legislation, the ARNG has changed over the last century. States do not need Abrams and Bradleys and Paladins. These are tools of the Federals. Regardless of the historical genesis and regardless of the fact that they have a residual state role, the ARNG is equipped and organized top to bottom to go to war in foreign lands. You are not helping your arguments for whatever third and fourth tier forces you are proposing through this analogy.

My proposition, in it's simplest form is that our reserve force ought to be organized like the ARNG i.e. for combat operations (albeit I'd like to see a bigger RegF presence amongst the ARes as our Class B structure sucks.)

The Guard is a creature of the State on loan to the Federal Government.

Yeah. Talk to the governor of California about that right now about the "loan" he's making to support ICE.

It can be done, but it is likely to be a dissatisfier. The value of traing a few more reservists would need to be weighed against the potential losses incurred in the RegF.

they are entitled to their entitlements. Leave is based upon seniority. Generally your senior people are the ones most qualified to instruct. They are also the ones the system is trying to hold on to. Tell them their summer leave is now in May and you will be handling a whole whack of retirements

@KevinB said it best up above about the fact that not everyone in the RegF is on a posting or on leave all summer long. One doesn't have to shove leave for the RegF to May. Just make sure that there are adequate numbers of RegF shifting through training support during the May to August timeframe. It's a simple time management issue. It's not a numbers issue its a priority issue.

But lets for argument's sake say that every RegF guy is spoken for. Then create and pay for a class of full-time service dedicated to ARes leadership and training. Make Class B contracts in support of RegF positions for Sep to April only and requiring them, as part of that Class B contract, to do a separate Class B contract from May to Aug exclusively tied to training the ARes. Or increase the role and numbers of the RSS. There are dozens of solutions as long as it starts to matter to someone that the ARes effectiveness depends on good leadership and proper full-time support.

But let's be honest. There are a multitude of things that need to be done to make the ARes a viable, effective force but no one is doing any of those except to keep pointing fingers at others. The institutional lethargy is unbelievable and borders on professional negligence. Ultimately that rests on the senior RegF leadership.

 

[KevinB]

When I was in Bn it would have been very rare for us to have less than two NCOs per platoon tasked out over the summer. Our summer block leaves are also off set by IRU tasking: A coy goes from vanguard to follow to leave, B coy goes from leave to vanguard to follow on, etc etc across the Bde. Then we have to consider collective training blocks being April to May and September to October. I know it’s a really pleasant idea to imagine that guys in the regular army are just sitting around waiting for tasks, Sam Hughes called us barroom layabouts and there’s a few in here that hold similar views, however in my experience I averaged 200 days away a year. At a certain point if the reserves want to be seen as a self sufficient organization, and for some reason they do, they need to be able to train their own people.

To your previous comment the whole point of block leave is that the formed units are available for tasks and training with a minimum of disruption. Off set leave increases disruption.

IF you are the IRU

My Reserve time is even further away from my decades stale Reg time but.

Using the Infantry as an example
There are 9 BN’s
1 will be gone on tour
1 will be prepping for tour
1 will be IRU
1 maybe NEO/DART whatever tasked

Worst case that is 5 BN’s basically available.
Infantry MTC areas are what 6-7
Gagetown
Valcartier
Petawawa
Meaford
Shilo
Wainwright.

Most ran 2-3 companies of Reserve DP1 (or whatever)
Let’s say 3 each @7 locations or 21 total

So 3 Major and MWO at each location

and Nationally 1 LtCol and RSM
21 Captains as Coy Commander’s and 21 WO/MWO
84 Lt’s and Sgt/WO’s
336 MCpl/Sgt
336 MCpl/ ISSC Qualified Cpl
108 Cpl/Pte

For 5 weeks for TQ/QL/DP whatever it is now
Figure the PRes will be able to supply minimum 25% of the staff, ideally more.

Generally most Reserve Leadership courses are also 1 month. So if you use May for that
It still leaves the July/Aug time frame

Using more Reg NCO’s in May to help make Reserve NCO’s to teach later in the summer seems like a no brainer as well.

 

[quadrapiper]

I think its important for us to be honest about what a part timer can and can't get proficiently trained in.

If a trade course is longer than a summer break from school its probably a trade that shouldn't be open to reservists.

Or it's a trade that should be handled in a completely different way from Rfn Bloggins.

 

[dapaterson]

That’s some awesome ‘ARes is better’ cherry picking, right there.

Class A and B get 92.8% of a RegF daily rate equivalent. You’re injecting RegF and Class C weekend and annual leave factors into things to make the day-rate Class A and term B look particularly downtrodden. That’s disingenuous.

And guess what? Lots of Air Reserve folks are happy doing as many Class a days or Class B terms as they wish and don’t feel, as you say, “abused.”

You’re also using the Army’s definition of ‘Reserve’ (B-GL-300-001/FP-001 Section 748, p 7-58 IIRC) although we couldn’t fault you because even the CAF has been Army-ized to the point where its public-facing definition (Help Centre | Canadian Armed Forces) of the reserves starts with saying what the regular force is (in Navy, Army and Air Force) in terms of environment (all of them, well, less SOF), trade and getting to OFP, then describes the reserves as…joining a Regiment…


If only every one could hope to be treated as well as an Army primary reservist…#daretodream

I am not say "Army is better". I am saying that the RCAF needs greater depth. I am saying that the method they employ other than full time personnel does not adequately compensate those personnel.

I could opine at length about the flaws in the Army reserve (and have).