Canada moves to 2% GDP end of FY25/26 - PMMC

[Colin Parkinson]

Meanwhile, thousands of LEOs are deployed around the country everyday with one in the pipe and ND’s are negligible.



They have been guarding landmarks there at least since the 80’s. I saw them doing that in summer 2009 at all the monuments and train stations.

The question I have is are they Army or Gendarmes in combat uniform? I’m not good at my French Army and Gendarmerie badges. It would make more sense to me for them to be Gendarmes, but I’m not French…

Wait till they get issued Sig 320's. The Spanish have Federal police (4 types of police) which are also paramilitary.

The Different Types of Spanish Police

 

[FJAG]

One of the problems is that the RegF is short of people and is having trouble enlisting enough to meet even its current authorized levels never mind the increased levels required for an expanded force.

That's a separate problem the RegF has to solve. As I understand the problem, there is no shortage of applicants; just a bottleneck going through security screening and the training pipeline. The second problem is a thin middle of the offr and NCO ranks - only time and that same training pipeline will solve that.

At the same time you've got a bunch of Reservists who want to serve in the military but don't want to leave their communities and are currently being extremely under utilized.

Fine. That's why you make RegF positions that are limited to a given geographic area. The one thing that stays the same is that RegF regardless of their class of service would be liable to be deployed operationally. That does not exist for ResF personnel unless they are placed on active service - once again that is an OiC cabinet issue.

Do you plan to square that circle by letting Reg Force applicants select at enrollment which form of Reg Force service they want...Postable or non-Postable?

Absolutely. To a given limit. My main place for using those types of positions is what I call urban, hybrid units. The vast majority of our population lives in urban centres and particulalry large urban centres. The only way that you can make an urban centre attractive (with its high costs of living) are to provide stability so that a member's spouse can get a job/career and they can use family housing or get on the property ladder to build a home for their future.

Again the RegF component of these units would be liable for operational tasks. The ResF members could see full-time careers in their local areas to transfer into while RegF members could also transfer to the ResF component if they decide to go civvy. For a large part of the RegF army, this would create a more stable lifestyle and career path, provide better leadership and training for their reservists and generate mobilizable units where right now there are mere shadows.

That would be an option that fits within the law.

Maybe start with a compulsory component transfer of every reservist with > 1 TOS remaining, to make them geographically restricted Reg F.

Unfortunately

Consent to transfer
24 No officer or non-commissioned member shall be transferred from the regular force to the reserve force or from the reserve force to the regular force unless the officer or non-commissioned member consents to the transfer.

Converter all Class B & Class C positions outside a PRes establishment to Reg F if those positions are supposed to persist beyond the next 12 months.

That, in many cases, would require the creation of new RegF positions either by reallocating an existing position or increasing the number of RegF permitted by way of OiC.

Or you can simply stop making those Class B positions available and say to the individuals your choice is to go back to Class A or voluntarily transfer to the RegF. Such an ultimatum would be much more attractive if a geographically limited form of RegF service was available.

Then institute a system that requires nee pers serve at least a year after reaching OFP before applying for geographic restrictions.

Yeah. I can see that. My own preference is that you start right on the day of signing up.

 

[FJAG]

Wait till they get issued Sig 320's. The Spanish have Federal police (4 types of police) which are also paramilitary.

The Different Types of Spanish Police

It's kind of funny. I see the concept of a federal paramilitary Gendarmerie is more prevalent in southern civil code jurisdictions (those that spent a fair time under Roman rule) while the northerners, in general, seem to shy away from that and draw a more distinct line between the military and the police.

I expect @Kirkhill can give us a historic foundation for that

 

[Czech_pivo]

It's kind of funny. I see the concept of a federal paramilitary Gendarmerie is more prevalent in southern civil code jurisdictions (those that spent a fair time under Roman rule) while the northerners, in general, seem to shy away from that and draw a more distinct line between the military and the police.

I expect @Kirkhill can give us a historic foundation for that

I’d expand that to include Latin America.

 

[GR66]

That would be an option that fits within the law.

Maybe start with a compulsory component transfer of every reservist with > 1 TOS remaining, to make them geographically restricted Reg F.

This sounds like a reasonable option but it wouldn't have to be a compulsory component transfer. Establish a certain number of geographically restricted Reg Force positions for the security force and allow Reservists that are at lease DP1 qualified to Component Transfer into those positions.

Similarly, any RegF personnel that have completed at least their minimum initial TOS could transfer to those positions. If there remain unfilled positions in the unit you could allow direct recruitment off the street into those positions but have a slightly longer initial minimum TOS to cover the training costs.

 

[McG]

This sounds like a reasonable option but it wouldn't have to be a compulsory component transfer. Establish a certain number of geographically restricted Reg Force positions for the security force and allow Reservists that are at lease DP1 qualified to Component Transfer into those positions.

Why do you need for security forces to be geographically restricted? The purpose of the security force is security, not to form battalions for people who don't want to move.

 

[Kirkhill]

It's kind of funny. I see the concept of a federal paramilitary Gendarmerie is more prevalent in southern civil code jurisdictions (those that spent a fair time under Roman rule) while the northerners, in general, seem to shy away from that and draw a more distinct line between the military and the police.

I expect @Kirkhill can give us a historic foundation for that

I'll try.

The English Civil War saw people distrust both the King's troops and Cromwell's Major-Generals.

The Bill of Rights of 1689 explicitly condemned James VII and II for raising a standing army without the consent of parliament. It also addressed billeting troops in pri ate residences.

These, along with depriving citizens of arms and the means to defend themselves, were all measures that Brits (English, Scots, Welsh and Irish) associated with heavy-handed pacification efforts across the Isles. That attitude was carried with the Brits, Huguenot French and Palatine Germans who established the colonies that became America.

These people had been subject to extra-judicial killings, field punishments, investments by the Highland Host and French Dragoons, slaughter in the fields while at church service, forcibly impressed into foreign armies, local mines and salt works, and to plantations in Ireland, Newfoundland, New England and the West Indies.

In short the populace did not trust authority with a gun.

Thus the unarmed citizen police.

Guns and Marines on ships to keep tbe borders secure and to rule the waves? Perfectly acceptable.

Peterloo Dragoons beating striking rabble from horseback and sending them to Australia? Not having it.

As to the rest of the northerners - some writers will note the overlap of Anglo-Saxon Witans and Norse Althings and the importance of the Hundreds councils and the Fyrds or citizen army.

Justinian and Carolingian law never gained the ascendancy in the seagoing northern communities that it did among the farmers of the continent despite the efforts of Alfred of Wessex.

He carried England south of the Thames. The rest of Britain, including Ireland, along with Scandinavia, the Faroes, Iceland, Greenland, as well as Newfoundland, Labrador, and conceivably Baffin and Oak islands, were all subject to Danelaw.

It is hard to catch a man on a boat to whip him into shape.

Farmers are much easier to grab.

 

[Kirkhill]

Look up The Standing Army debates between Daniel Defoe (of Robinson Crusoe fame) and John Trenchard of 1697 to 1699.

No standing army.
Parliament reauthorises the army, and its budget every year.

The navy is different. It has a real job. Keeping the French away.

<span>England’s Standing Army Controversy (1697-99) and the Origins of the Second Amendment</span>

<p>This article explores the writings of England's Standing Army Controversy at the end of the seventeenth century, and the links between those writings and the

papers.ssrn.com

 

[FJAG]

The English Civil War saw people distrust both the King's troops and Cromwell's Major-Generals.

Okay now explain the Nordic countries other than the UK.

 

[Kirkhill]

Okay now explain the Nordic countries other than the UK.

One word. Viking.

Widukind, pronounced Viking by the Danes, had a real hate on for Karolus Magnus after he started imported German speaking priests from Alfred's Wessex because they spoke dialects similar to the Danes, Jutes, Geats, Bornholmers, Frisians and old Saxons.

Charlemagne's priests then started chopping down sacred trees and turning them into pews.

When that didn't convert enough licals to his version of Christianity (many of them were already Christians but aligned with Constantinople and spoke Theotiscam and Greek instead of Romansch and Latin) then he imposed the Lex Saxonicum on the Saxons and invited them to become proper Carolingian/Gregorian Christians. He slaughtered 4600 recusants at Verden in 782.

Widukind left his native Saxony, jumped the Danewerk and found refuge with the Danes in Denmark.

10 years later Vikings were taking their hate out on Alfred's Gregorian churches and priests. The same people chopping down the Germans' sacred trees and overseeing the choice between baptism and beheading.

....

Curious factoid.

The richest community in western Europe was was in that part of the Netherlands controlled by Frisians. The town is close to the city of Utrecht. Frisians have been in Britain since at least the buliding of Hadrian's Wall. English and Fries are still closely related languages.

The name of the town that Charlemagne wanted?

Dorestad. Gold City.

 

[Kirkhill]

Kind of bookending the argument:

Constantinople/Byzantium was associated with Andrew, "The First Called" to follow Christ.

Rome, by way of Paul/Saul of Tarsus, was associated with Peter/Simon, Andrew's younger brother. Peter's turf was actually Antioch.

Rome was a Greek speaking city up until Gregorian times. Andrew was also highly revered until he was displaced.

Bookend 1 Charlemagne and Gregorian Petrine Rome.

Bookend 2 Louis the Sun King and Divine right.

...

In Scotland Peter and Andrew supporters fought it out. Andrew won. In England Peter won, as was true in the rest of Carolingian Europe.

Andrew won in East.

....

In the Sun King's Europe French and German protestants were slaughtered and banished. Children were removed from parents. Wives were forcibly converted. Men were murdered. The Stewarts were fans.

French Huguenots, German Palatines (Anabaptists like the Amish, Mennonites and Hutterites), Scottish Covenanters, English Puritans (including Baptists, Quakers and Methodists) as well as Dutch Reformers all found security under the Union Jack protected by the Royal Navy and supported by the Huguenots of the Bank of England.

Those folks became Americans.

 

[Czech_pivo]

Kind of bookending the argument:

Constantinople/Byzantium was associated with Andrew, "The First Called" to follow Christ.

Rome, by way of Paul/Saul of Tarsus, was associated with Peter/Simon, Andrew's younger brother. Peter's turf was actually Antioch.

Rome was a Greek speaking city up until Gregorian times. Andrew was also highly revered until he was displaced.

Bookend 1 Charlemagne and Gregorian Petrine Rome.

Bookend 2 Louis the Sun King and Divine right.

...

In Scotland Peter and Andrew supporters fought it out. Andrew won. In England Peter won, as was true in the rest of Carolingian Europe.

Andrew won in East.

....

In the Sun King's Europe French and German protestants were slaughtered and banished. Children were removed from parents. Wives were forcibly converted. Men were murdered. The Stewarts were fans.

French Huguenots, German Palatines (Anabaptists like the Amish, Mennonites and Hutterites), Scottish Covenanters, English Puritans (including Baptists, Quakers and Methodists) as well as Dutch Reformers all found security under the Union Jack protected by the Royal Navy and supported by the Huguenots of the Bank of England.

Those folks became Americans.

And those descendants in the US are still quoting scripture today….

 

[MilEME09]

This is the 4th or 5th time this year CFLRS has been full or near full. Now just think, if our beuracracy was any faster, we would have a problem....good thing it takes a year to enroll someone.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1966907774140326212

 

[brihard]

This is the 4th or 5th time this year CFLRS has been full or near full. Now just think, if our beuracracy was any faster, we would have a problem....good thing it takes a year to enroll someone.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1966907774140326212

Marc’s a good dude and has been killing it representing CFLRS and CAF positively on social media. I look forward to hearing what he moves on to next once his stint commanding the school is up.

 

[GR66]

Why do you need for security forces to be geographically restricted? The purpose of the security force is security, not to form battalions for people who don't want to move.

I take a different view than you on this. Despite recent improvements in the recruit intake process I think that attracting people to the military (and the combat arms in particular) will continue to be an issue. Meanwhile we have a seriously untapped group of people in the Reserves who have already expressed a willingness to serve but for whatever reason aren't willing to uproot themselves from their homes to join the military full time.

I think that a percentage of these people might be ideal to form at least a portion of the core of the 30% portion of a 30/70 Reserve force structure. I also think that the security force role would be a good fit for a 30/70 Reserve unit. You won't always need a large security force in peacetime at our bases but you should be able to fairly rapidly expand the force in times of tension without drawing away from your primary combat arms units.

Having a good portion of your 30% core full-time security force geographically restricted would also allow them to become intimately familiar with the location they are securing...learning the pattern of life in the area, the people and trades that regularly interact with the base, coordination with local law enforcement, etc. These things are more difficult when the members of the security force are transferred out every couple of years.

We're seeing recruitment and retention issues across the Western World's militaries so this isn't just a Canadian issue and while we can certainly enact policies to make things better I believe things have fundamentally changed and we need to embrace different ideas on how to attract people to the military.

$0.02

 

[Rifleman62]

Why does it take so long for a security clearance? Canada has a million immigrates in about a year; 5000 from Gaza, thousands of students, TFW, etc. Don't they get a least a criminal check?

 

[Colin Parkinson]

I'll try.

The English Civil War saw people distrust both the King's troops and Cromwell's Major-Generals.

The Bill of Rights of 1689 explicitly condemned James VII and II for raising a standing army without the consent of parliament. It also addressed billeting troops in pri ate residences.

These, along with depriving citizens of arms and the means to defend themselves, were all measures that Brits (English, Scots, Welsh and Irish) associated with heavy-handed pacification efforts across the Isles. That attitude was carried with the Brits, Huguenot French and Palatine Germans who established the colonies that became America.

These people had been subject to extra-judicial killings, field punishments, investments by the Highland Host and French Dragoons, slaughter in the fields while at church service, forcibly impressed into foreign armies, local mines and salt works, and to plantations in Ireland, Newfoundland, New England and the West Indies.

In short the populace did not trust authority with a gun.

Thus the unarmed citizen police.

Guns and Marines on ships to keep tbe borders secure and to rule the waves? Perfectly acceptable.

Peterloo Dragoons beating striking rabble from horseback and sending them to Australia? Not having it.

As to the rest of the northerners - some writers will note the overlap of Anglo-Saxon Witans and Norse Althings and the importance of the Hundreds councils and the Fyrds or citizen army.

Justinian and Carolingian law never gained the ascendancy in the seagoing northern communities that it did among the farmers of the continent despite the efforts of Alfred of Wessex.

He carried England south of the Thames. The rest of Britain, including Ireland, along with Scandinavia, the Faroes, Iceland, Greenland, as well as Newfoundland, Labrador, and conceivably Baffin and Oak islands, were all subject to Danelaw.

It is hard to catch a man on a boat to whip him into shape.

Farmers are much easier to grab.

Funny, I am watching "The last Kingdom" on Netflix, about Alfred and his attempt to unify England. I am sure it has only a passing acquaintance with the true history, but entertaining.

 

[MilEME09]

Why does it take so long for a security clearance? Canada has a million immigrates in about a year; 5000 from Gaza, thousands of students, TFW, etc. Don't they get a least a criminal check?

For citizens its the issue of understaffing at the office from what ive heard and no one seems wanting to fix it. For PRs, CSIS and CBSA keep pointing fingers at each other as to whos supposed to to the out of country security checks. Which adds massive delays to the process because the normal security checks only look in canada. For PRs we gotta look at their country of origin too, a few less than savy people have already been caught and released

 

[MilEME09]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1966631161762812232

We now have publicly the korean proposal back in March that was offered....oh my. I think we would be dumb not to take this, especially establishing defense manufacturing in canada.

 

[dapaterson]

The enrolment of PRs needs to be questioned as to whether the juice is worth the squeeze. Security clearance restrictions are such that they are ineligible for the majority of CAF occupations.