Canada moves to 2% GDP end of FY25/26 - PMMC

[ytz]

Where are the arm-chair submarine experts to dissect the Canadian Submarine procurement? Or does that only apply to fighter jets.

It mostly applies to expensive kit bought from the US. If this submarine deal was going to the US, you'd see a lot of experts joining the parade. Likewise, if the F-35 was from Germany, you'd see a lot less opposition to it.

 

[MilEME09]

So its being reported a Tiger team is looking at what needs to be done to increase the PRes to 100k and "other" reserves to 300k, and it started work in May. This makes me very interested in the upcoming budget, and will we see amendments to the NDA this parliament.

 

[ytz]

So its being reported a Tiger team is looking at what needs to be done to increase the PRes to 100k and "other" reserves to 300k, and it started work in May. This makes me very interested in the upcoming budget, and will we see amendments to the NDA this parliament.

Lol. That team is small. And tearing their hair out. And like they mostly got posted in this APS. I really wouldn't expect much until next summer.

 

[MilEME09]

Lol. That team is small. And tearing their hair out. And like they mostly got posted in this APS. I really wouldn't expect much until next summer.

They have a large task list but when I say this parliment, that is a 4 year cycle potentially. Ive heard a few snips of ideas being tossed around, like fully staffed permenant battleschools for the CBGs. We are talking each ARes brigade probably increasing by 3 or 4x. Plus expansion of the Navres and Airres

 

[Cloud Cover]

They have a large task list but when I say this parliment, that is a 4 year cycle potentially. Ive heard a few snips of ideas being tossed around, like fully staffed permenant battleschools for the CBGs. We are talking each ARes brigade probably increasing by 3 or 4x. Plus expansion of the Navres and Airres

Nah.

Increasing the reserves to 100,000 will take 15-20 years, or 5 changes of government and 2 full recessions.

 

[MilEME09]

Nah.

Increasing the reserves to 100,000 will take 15-20 years, or 5 changes of government and 2 full recessions.

With the current recruiting system? 20 years is generous

 

[GK .Dundas]

I could be wrong but isn't he involved with Project Plowshares?

 

[GK .Dundas]

And yet had a Conservative minister as a PhD student.

I don't think it's so much his anti-Conservative as just typical left wing anti-military worldview. Add a tinge of anti-Americanism. He's been vocal basically about anything seen as substantial cooperation with the US. Most notably the F-35.

I could be wrong but isn't he involved with Project Plowshares?

 

[childs56]

I wasn't talking about this site, it's the news and in general. Which type of trucks/subs/guns the CAF buys doesn't nearly get the same attention and scrutiny from "experts" as fighter jets.

I am willing to bet more people are involved in some way shape or form in those hot topics of discussion then they are in Subs.

Where are the arm-chair submarine experts to dissect the Canadian Submarine procurement? Or does that only apply to fighter jets.

LOL, I think if you break down the options for what we need and the limited builders available along with timelines. There really is not much to say about it. All the subs are close in specs, capabilities and price. The biggest difference is delivery times. We need new subs asap. I think the discussion went to Nuclear boats you would see lots more discussion.

 

[childs56]

It mostly applies to expensive kit bought from the US. If this submarine deal was going to the US, you'd see a lot of experts joining the parade. Likewise, if the F-35 was from Germany, you'd see a lot less opposition to it.

I doubt it, the US doesn't build diesel boats anymore.
If Germany was building the F35 we would not have been invited into the initial design /supply of some intricate systems for the F35, therefore would not even been on the radar for sales to us.

They have a large task list but when I say this parliment, that is a 4 year cycle potentially. Ive heard a few snips of ideas being tossed around, like fully staffed permenant battleschools for the CBGs. We are talking each ARes brigade probably increasing by 3 or 4x. Plus expansion of the Navres and Airres

The first step they need to do is buy enough sufficient proper equipment. Then they can move forward with recruiting and staffing the Battle Schools and training centers. Until we can properly kit our Troops with boots clothing, rucksacks etc along with weapons and platforms. They are wasting the air they are breathing writing program after program.

 

[Ostrozac]

So its being reported a Tiger team is looking at what needs to be done to increase the PRes to 100k and "other" reserves to 300k, and it started work in May. This makes me very interested in the upcoming budget, and will we see amendments to the NDA this parliament.

Having a reserve force many times larger than the regular force would be uncharted waters. I’m not saying we couldn’t do it, but I’m not sure any country has successfully implemented such a system without conscription in the modern era. Even the US, which has a bit of a tradition of short-service followed by GI Bill and a reserve commitment, still has more active troops than reservists/guardsmen.

 

[FJAG]

Having a reserve force many times larger than the regular force would be uncharted waters. I’m not saying we couldn’t do it, but I’m not sure any country has successfully implemented such a system without conscription in the modern era. Even the US, which has a bit of a tradition of short-service followed by GI Bill and a reserve commitment, still has more active troops than reservists/guardsmen.

At least not since the 1950s. Before that it was the way Canada did business. The US currently has

The question as to whether it has been successfully implemented without conscription is the wrong question. Most countries with a large reserve force do use conscription, so it hasn't been tested.

The real question is: are armies with a large reserve force effective? I expect the answer to that to be - if properly equipped, trained and led and supported by a robust arms industry then why wouldn't they be. If those conditions are met then the question is really only one of the standard of readiness a country is prepared to accept. It's almost by definition that a full-time force is readier than a part-time one..

If your concern is: can we actually recruit and train and equip such a reserve force? then it does become a matter of resources, opportunities, conditions of service and the right attitude of our military leadership.

I think, if your aim is to make a larger force in general then increasing the reserve size is less expensive per member and therefore more financially viable and sustainable. Given the right terms of service and incentives, it should probably be easier to recruit people to serve in their home communities part-time.

I'll make one thing clear though. If one just wants to make a bigger version of the reserve force model we already have then Canada should just save its money.

 

[Eaglelord17]

Recruiting would have to change to make those numbers, but that could be a positive thing. As long as they can pass a medical and a security clearance they should be able to join.

Mind you this also means your military is going to be more reflective of society warts and all.

 

[ytz]

They have a large task list but when I say this parliment, that is a 4 year cycle potentially. Ive heard a few snips of ideas being tossed around, like fully staffed permenant battleschools for the CBGs. We are talking each ARes brigade probably increasing by 3 or 4x. Plus expansion of the Navres and Airres

Just like any other gig, ever are doing to present a bunch of COAs with all their factors analysis and lay out the trade-offs. I am expecting a lot more sober deliberation when that is presented.

People here are talking about training. I'm wondering about basics. Like simply kitting them out. It already takes like 3 hrs to get anything done at Supply in Ottawa. Imagine what that will be like if there's another 6000 reservists in the city. Imagine what lines will be like in larger cities like Toronto, or Montreal.

Growing a large reserve force like that, requires a complete rethink of the CAF. And when that is presented with all the hurdles and costs, I expect the vision will get more streamlined.

There's two big values that I see:

1) Keep retiring Reg F engaged. That's a lot of knowledge and experience. That can be leveraged. On everything from training to helping organize a larger reserve.

2) Skilled trades. There's people who are red seal chefs and mechanics. There's university students who know more space operations than some of our operators. If we can find a way to get them to OFP quickly based on their civvy knowledge and experience, we can create a deep bench of talent that be mobilized quickly in a war or can even be routinely drawn on to relieve the Reg F more.

Whatever the plan though, once we start getting past the 30-40k reservists we have now, we're taking about fundamentally changing the way the institution is organized. And that isn't easy or cheap. I'm skeptical that happens, or that it happens quickly, given everything else that is happening right now.

 

[Remius]

Maybe we get our units to established strength first. Then we might be in a better position to grow from there.

 

[Jarnhamar]

For the last 30 years many reserve "battalions" have had a hard time putting together a platoon for exercise, or even a section. But we're spending man hours researching how to bring the reserves up to 400,000? Who's the comedian who started that?

 

[dapaterson]

For the last 30 years many reserve "battalions" have had a hard time putting together a platoon for exercise, or even a section. But we're spending man hours researching how to bring the reserves up to 400,000? Who's the comedian who started that?

The Reg F Army of 20k has repeated had trouble sustaining a battle group deployed...

 

[SeaKingTacco]

The Reg F Army of 20k has repeated had trouble sustaining a battle group deployed...

That is because it is a Reg F army of 20k….

 

[Remius]

For the last 30 years many reserve "battalions" have had a hard time putting together a platoon for exercise, or even a section. But we're spending man hours researching how to bring the reserves up to 400,000? Who's the comedian who started that?

Start by removing the come as you please mentality.

 

[ytz]

For the last 30 years many reserve "battalions" have had a hard time putting together a platoon for exercise, or even a section. But we're spending man hours researching how to bring the reserves up to 400,000? Who's the comedian who started that?

To be fair, a good chunk of NATO is doing the same exercise after Ukraine and as defence spending ramps. Ukraine has shown why proper mobilization schema need to be developed.

It's probably a good exercise. Way too many people, inside and outside the institution, assume that growing during wartime will be easy. Just cause we did it 85 years ago. A reality check is sorely needed.

If anything, at least they'll learn why and how they should fix what ails our current reserve force.