Canada moves to 2% GDP end of FY25/26 - PMMC

[Kirkhill]

While our discussions continue...

https://www.theaustralian.com.au/special-reports/indo-pacific/maritime-defence-plan-sails-into-high-gear/news-story/c63340aff9b7991d9ac47bed22d433e5

That is why we have increased defence funding by $70bn over the course of the next decade, relative to what we inherited

We’re equipping our navy with the next generation of autonomous undersea vehicles,

acquiring the upgraded Mogami-class frigate

commissioning the newest asset to the fleet – HMAS Arafura (80m 1600 tonne OPV, crew of 40, 60 troops, 1x 40mm, 1x 25mm, 2x 12.7mm)

We have delivered Naval Strike Missile, Tomahawk and Standard Missile 6
greater firepower and a 10-fold increase to its maximum weapon range

the Navy will receive its first new surface combatant five years earlier than was planned when we came to office.

Australia is ready to receive its first Virginia-class submarine in the early 2030s.

Naval power and defence industry co-operation go hand-in-glove. Every opportunity we have to talk to one another and share ideas

 

[Navy_Pete]

How about building some housing for the troops and their families that are not over crowded slums.

Lot of CFHA work planned, and they are actively buying apartment buildings and fixing them up for some capacity now but from a strict dollar value POV those are a rounding error in the infra plan. Also should be a lot more money available for maintenance, but seems to vary wildly between bases as well, so very strange to figure out as a non-infra guy looking at things as a newbie in a loaner job to ADM(IE). Working on getting rid of AFFF systems on buildings, and that alone is an eight figure program (plus whatever is needed for the RCN).

Awesome to see more housing, and really needed, but we have so much complex buildings and mega projects coming down the pipes those are just small local projects now. That's actually a good thing and help keep them rolling so they don't get stuck waiting for a small group of specialists to find time to review them, and something bases can grow the capability to do at that volume. We can't keep up with the volume of complex stuff now and struggling to hire more, so happy to offload simple things to the bases.

Lots of buildings that are to the point where they may get shut down as unsafe as well, so you can imagine the churn that creates.

 

[DBNSG]

Lot of CFHA work planned, and they are actively buying apartment buildings and fixing them up for some capacity now but from a strict dollar value POV those are a rounding error in the infra plan. Also should be a lot more money available for maintenance, but seems to vary wildly between bases as well, so very strange to figure out as a non-infra guy looking at things as a newbie in a loaner job to ADM(IE). Working on getting rid of AFFF systems on buildings, and that alone is an eight figure program (plus whatever is needed for the RCN).

Awesome to see more housing, and really needed, but we have so much complex buildings and mega projects coming down the pipes those are just small local projects now. That's actually a good thing and help keep them rolling so they don't get stuck waiting for a small group of specialists to find time to review them, and something bases can grow the capability to do at that volume. We can't keep up with the volume of complex stuff now and struggling to hire more, so happy to offload simple things to the bases.

Lots of buildings that are to the point where they may get shut down as unsafe as well, so you can imagine the churn that creates.

I could see some creative solutions now that bags of money are around. There are at least four new apartment buildings under construction or recently finished literally across the street from Stad's front gate. I think at least 350-400 combined units and even one named the Admiralty.

 

[Kirkhill]

I could see some creative solutions now that bags of money are around. There are at least four new apartment buildings under construction or recently finished literally across the street from Stad's front gate. I think at least 350-400 combined units and even one named the Admiralty.

Apparently the Condo market has gone bust
2500 in Vancouver
350 in Victoria
20,000 in the Golden Triangle

And they are all small, ugly and poorly laid out enough to suit the most discriminating military taste.

 

[McG]

Lot of CFHA work planned, and they are actively buying apartment buildings and fixing them up for some capacity now but from a strict dollar value POV those are a rounding error in the infra plan. Also should be a lot more money available for maintenance, but seems to vary wildly between bases as well, so very strange to figure out as a non-infra guy looking at things as a newbie in a loaner job to ADM(IE). Working on getting rid of AFFF systems on buildings, and that alone is an eight figure program (plus whatever is needed for the RCN).

Awesome to see more housing, and really needed, but we have so much complex buildings and mega projects coming down the pipes those are just small local projects now. That's actually a good thing and help keep them rolling so they don't get stuck waiting for a small group of specialists to find time to review them, and something bases can grow the capability to do at that volume. We can't keep up with the volume of complex stuff now and struggling to hire more, so happy to offload simple things to the bases.

Lots of buildings that are to the point where they may get shut down as unsafe as well, so you can imagine the churn that creates.

If there is a catalogue of approved designs, the actual construction of new single & duplex PMQs is within local RPOps' new spending authorities ... but there are a few bases that have new PMQs where everyone wants the old houses because of the cheaper rents.

 

[HavokFour]

Apparently the Condo market has gone bust
2500 in Vancouver
350 in Victoria
20,000 in the Golden Triangle

And they are all small, ugly and poorly laid out enough to suit the most discriminating military taste.

 

[DBNSG]

Apparently the Condo market has gone bust
2500 in Vancouver
350 in Victoria
20,000 in the Golden Triangle

And they are all small, ugly and poorly laid out enough to suit the most discriminating military taste.

There are very few Condo's in Halifax and all the new buildings by Stad are rentals

 

[Halifax Tar]

Lot of CFHA work planned, and they are actively buying apartment buildings and fixing them up for some capacity now but from a strict dollar value POV those are a rounding error in the infra plan. Also should be a lot more money available for maintenance, but seems to vary wildly between bases as well, so very strange to figure out as a non-infra guy looking at things as a newbie in a loaner job to ADM(IE). Working on getting rid of AFFF systems on buildings, and that alone is an eight figure program (plus whatever is needed for the RCN).

Awesome to see more housing, and really needed, but we have so much complex buildings and mega projects coming down the pipes those are just small local projects now. That's actually a good thing and help keep them rolling so they don't get stuck waiting for a small group of specialists to find time to review them, and something bases can grow the capability to do at that volume. We can't keep up with the volume of complex stuff now and struggling to hire more, so happy to offload simple things to the bases.

Lots of buildings that are to the point where they may get shut down as unsafe as well, so you can imagine the churn that creates.

We're getting rid of AFFF ?

 

[Furniture]

We're getting rid of AFFF ?

Switching to a non-toxic version.

 

[ueo]

How about building some housing for the troops and their families that are not over crowded slums.

Lived in Qs for years. Over crowded slums, don't think so!

 

[KevinB]

Lived in Qs for years. Over crowded slums, don't think so!

Depending where one was posted both are true.

 

[Navy_Pete]

Switching to a non-toxic version.

Not non-toxic, just PFAS free. It's still a hazmat, but whatever is burning will create it's own toxic soup anyway so why run off control is a concern.

For infra, where we can we're moving away from any foam where we can, and there is a flooring system for hangars that basically catches any fuel into a trench and has some flushing water to get it moving if necessary that works well (ILDFA). At some remote sites we're starting to go towards clean agents instead just because providing water is a bit of a challenge in the Artic Circle for example. Lot of disposal of the old stuff too.

@Halifax Tar there is currently only a land based milspec flourine free foam (F3) so the RCN will lag everyone else, but will still be foam where we have foam now. Some questions if we need to do training on the F3, which has to be applied a certain way and isn't forgiving like AFFF, and if we need to use different tactics but working on that.

 

[YZT580]

As part of our 2%, I have heard little to nothing regarding our response to the hurricane disaster in Jamaica and Haiti. Usually there is some kind of rumour from OW that the DART was under consideration. I would have thought that, with all the temp. workers here from Jamaica that it would have been front and centre on the list. Samaritan's Purse had their hospital on the ground on Monday. Has there been anything?

 

[PuckChaser]

There's a support team at the OSH. We dont have the troops to send for DARt, thoughts and prayers it is.

 

[daftandbarmy]

There's a support team at the OSH. We dont have the troops to send for DARt, thoughts and prayers it is.

But we sent 20 people!

Prime Minister Carney speaks with Prime Minister of Jamaica and Chair of the Caribbean Community Andrew Holness

Prime Minister Carney expressed Canada’s deepest sympathies to the people of Jamaica following the destruction caused by Hurricane Melissa.

www.pm.gc.ca

 

[MacNav63]

Serious question and I may just not remember but have we ever deployed DARt?

 

[KevinB]

Serious question and I may just not remember but have we ever deployed DARt?

Yes.
The first DART tasking was to Rwanda upon the standup - it however spent no time in Rwanda (outside the PPCLI) and was staying in Uganda for over 30 days. (not to be confused with either the previous 3 CDO and JTF deployments to Rwanda nor those of folks on UN duty)
I have heard it has been deployed since - but no direct knowledge.

 

[MilEME09]

Serious question and I may just not remember but have we ever deployed DARt?

the 2005 Tsunami in Sri lanka comes to mind

 

[Cloud Cover]

the 2005 Tsunami in Sri lanka comes to mind

Honduras, I think Pakistani and quite possibly Haiti.

 

[Kirkhill]

Yes.
The first DART tasking was to Rwanda upon the standup - it however spent no time in Rwanda (outside the PPCLI) and was staying in Uganda for over 30 days. (not to be confused with either the previous 3 CDO and JTF deployments to Rwanda nor those of folks on UN duty)
I have heard it has been deployed since - but no direct knowledge.

And you rejected my "I'd love to come but I just don't have the time."

Ragging the puck is our national game.

We plan for 2030 knowing that Trump will be gone in 2028 and by 2030 the war in Ukraine will be 8 years old, or 17 depending on which clock you are using.

At the same time doctrine, tactics and technology are iterating every month. 12 generations a year. 2030 is 50 generations from now.

Are we confident that the lessons we have learned to date, the lessons that are informing decisions on new factories for example, are still going to be valid in 50 generations.

I haven't heard much outcry recently for Javelin missiles. In April 2022 nobody could get enough of them because they were perceived as having stopped the Russian tank horde.

Everybody wanted Pariots to defend the skies but now people are trying to figure out how to take out 1000 dollar targets for pennies.

Bayraktar to Maviks to Malloys to FPVs to Fibre Optics.

Towed to tracks to wheels and back to towed.

No home for 70mm to can't get enough of them.

No airpower without fighters to can't fly because of GBAD and CUAS.

Airfields to roads to airfield independent vehicles.

No seapower without ships to bottling up a navy in its homeports with RC Seadoos and home made cruise missiles.

Grounding strategic bombers. Shutting down Air Defences.
Attacking oil refineries and bridges.

All done by a country that started the war with wooden guns and molotov cocktails.

Converting civilian assets like Starlink into tactical advantagea. Software designed to call a cab used to call in artillery.

You'll be pleased to know I am running out of ready examples.

....

This is not to argue that we should do nothing now. In fact we should be doing a lot more right now. Right this minute.

Money should be being spent on the flavour of the day. Not to convert our entire future force of 400,000 reservists to one standard, which will be wrong in 2030. But to generate a small number of current battalions getting familiar with, and adapting the latest technologies and figuring out how to build an unsteady fly-by-wire force that is in constant flux and able to react faster to our enemies.

That is all about speed, risk, expense, waste, failure and reset. None of which appeals to bureaucrats, especially Canadian ones, especially if they think there is a chance that this will all blow over by 2028.