Canada moves to 2% GDP end of FY25/26 - PMMC

[PuckChaser]

I feel for the recruiters honestly. People have free will and you cant force people to be a cook when they want to be in the infantry or combat engineers. Im gonna say that the numbers game alone looks promising if they keep filling up St Jean to the gills every serial.

What viable company hires people they don't need? We're over inflating recruiting numbers by filing CFLRS with easy to recruit trades instead of the difficult job of filling gaps. There's like 10 RegF trades barely going to hit 50% of their SIP goal and we have others over 100% already. That's not a coalface recruiter problem, thats a CMP/CFRG leadership failure.

 

[Remius]

What viable company hires people they don't need? We're over inflating recruiting numbers by filing CFLRS with easy to recruit trades instead of the difficult job of filling gaps. There's like 10 RegF trades barely going to hit 50% of their SIP goal and we have others over 100% already. That's not a coalface recruiter problem, thats a CMP/CFRG leadership failure.

Same issue we have her in 4 Div. Over one hundred percent combat arms filled and over filled. CSS no where near its targets.

At least though it is officially being viewed as a failure and not a successful year for recruiting.

 

[mariomike]

We should be targeting training the majority of new entrants for 2 to 5 years of service and then putting them into reserve and tracking them.

How common is it for members of the Regular Force to CT to Reserves after 2 to 5 years of service?

 

[Kirkhill]

How common is it for members of the Regular Force to CT to Reserves after 2 to 5 years of service?

What ever it is it should be more common.

 

[Furniture]

What ever it is it should be more common.

What advantage does it offer to the member?

I suspect most people who leave full-time service either willingly or unwillingly after 2-5 years want little to do with the CAF.

 

[dangerboy]

A lot of people don't want to transfer to the reserves after being in the regular force, as if you have served for six years, you are eligible for education and training benefits (6 years up to $40,000, 12 years up to $80,000). If you transfer to the reserves you can't apply for this till you release from the reserves.

 

[Underway]

I feel for the recruiters honestly. People have free will and you cant force people to be a cook when they want to be in the infantry or combat engineers. Im gonna say that the numbers game alone looks promising if they keep filling up St Jean to the gills every serial.

Recruiting is doing its part in the mission. CFLRS is filling up every serial. And we aren't cheating this year either (like last year when we stole SIP from this year to do it). Are we missing some trades? Yes. Some are very difficult to fill up. But we can't recruit more than the training system can handle so what do people want from us? The Training system needs to flex now, and that's a lot harder to do than improve recruiting (because infrastructure etc...).

As far as retention goes, I know two people in my office who stayed because of the pay raise. I know another who was considering dropping their class B to do a civi job reconsider to CT to Reg F because of the pay change. And this year is the first year we'll see the retention bonus kick in. 5 yearsis the first year you get that bonus ($2000). So that's not statistics, its personal story, but those changes did address directly to one of the main complaints regarding retention that were out there. Pay.

I do expect them to fumble the ball here though on the re-calculation of CFHD, as a whole bunch of folks will see their allowances reduced as their pay increased significantly. Could be wrong though... gov't expects $130 million to be spent on it, so they better not "save" to much money. I know they are looking at changing the pay categories this year instead of just addressing rent costs in cities (also rent has gone down in a few places due to the condo market crash, so that's going to effect things).

 

[GR66]

A lot of people don't want to transfer to the reserves after being in the regular force, as if you have served for six years, you are eligible for education and training benefits (6 years up to $40,000, 12 years up to $80,000). If you transfer to the reserves you can't apply for this till you release from the reserves.

Well that sounds like an easy to solve problem.

 

[Kirkhill]

Who’s invading Canada? Either way the CAF isn’t a deterrence in its current state. You’re better off to arm 40 million people.

Peace Order and Good Government.
That is what our parliament is charged with maintaining.
To do that they need help.

These days the peace is disturbed.
These days public disorder is becomoing uncreasingly common.
I will leave the quality of the government alone.

The civil power is in need of aid.
And that too is a duty of the CAF.
It has been, in the English speaking world at least, since Alfred built his burhs.

The navy and the air force conduct standing patrols and maintain OPs daily in aid of the civil power.
They supply ISR. They supply an immediate reaction capability. They provide support. They provide a deterrence.
Space, cyber, sigs, int, psy-ops and info-ops fall into the same category.

The army is different.
It is not engaged daily.
Its job is to anticipate the unanticipated and organize Canadians accordingly.

Combat in various environments is one task set for the army, even the primary one.
But providing security, defending public spaces, relieving pressure on the agents of the civil power, these too are tasks for the army.
And relieving pressure can be done by supplying transport and communications, medical assistance, shelter-heat-sanitation-water-food,.
All the things combat arms need to function in the field.

The army's main job is to organize and train people in sufficient numbers that the unexpected can be managed.
Not all of those people have to be on the payroll.

 

[Furniture]

Well that sounds like an easy to solve problem.

It's a VAC programme not a CAF/DND one, so it's not that easy to solve.

The intent of the programme is to provide former CAF members with the skills/education to re-intigrate into civilian life successfully. Making it into a bonus while still serving completely changes the intent, and would likely result in backlash or other pay/compensation changes.

 

[MJP]

Well that sounds like an easy to solve problem.

It is legislative so needs parliament to change the rules. Sounds like good way for the government to continue their support to the CAF by making the changes.

In a dream world the legislation would be changed so anyone that hits the gateways to access the money can do so regardless if they are still serving or not.

 

[Humphrey Bogart]

Recruiting is doing its part in the mission. CFLRS is filling up every serial. And we aren't cheating this year either (like last year when we stole SIP from this year to do it). Are we missing some trades? Yes. Some are very difficult to fill up. But we can't recruit more than the training system can handle so what do people want from us? The Training system needs to flex now, and that's a lot harder to do than improve recruiting (because infrastructure etc...).

As far as retention goes, I know two people in my office who stayed because of the pay raise. I know another who was considering dropping their class B to do a civi job reconsider to CT to Reg F because of the pay change. And this year is the first year we'll see the retention bonus kick in. 5 yearsis the first year you get that bonus ($2000). So that's not statistics, its personal story, but those changes did address directly to one of the main complaints regarding retention that were out there. Pay.

I do expect them to fumble the ball here though on the re-calculation of CFHD, as a whole bunch of folks will see their allowances reduced as their pay increased significantly. Could be wrong though... gov't expects $130 million to be spent on it, so they better not "save" to much money. I know they are looking at changing the pay categories this year instead of just addressing rent costs in cities (also rent has gone down in a few places due to the condo market crash, so that's going to effect things).

It's not a recruiting problem, it's a resource allocation problem that exists past the initial entry points of CFLRS/CFRG.

What is needed is a sustained influx of money and resources in to the specialist occupations and some unconventional ideas on how to increase training throughput of high-skilled trades.

One idea would be to hire contractors to deliver specialist skill training (ex-service members, etc). The Navy already does this with NWO training. 80% of the training NWOs receive is delivered by contractors, known as, "Marine Science Instructors". The training they give was superior to what I got once in the Fleet.

 

[Kirkhill]

What advantage does it offer to the member?

I suspect most people who leave full-time service either willingly or unwillingly after 2-5 years want little to do with the CAF.

A lot of people don't want to transfer to the reserves after being in the regular force, as if you have served for six years, you are eligible for education and training benefits (6 years up to $40,000, 12 years up to $80,000). If you transfer to the reserves you can't apply for this till you release from the reserves.

Well that sounds like an easy to solve problem.

All of those statements are true. All are valid.

But.

They define the problem.

The goals of the services, and the terms offered, need to be revised.
Other nations work to achieve a different regular-reseve balance and are successful.

 

[Eaglelord17]

It's a VAC programme not a CAF/DND one, so it's not that easy to solve.

The intent of the programme is to provide former CAF members with the skills/education to re-intigrate into civilian life successfully. Making it into a bonus while still serving completely changes the intent, and would likely result in backlash or other pay/compensation changes.

Then rewrite the criteria of the program.

When it actively harms the CAF you make adjustments so it no longer does. A simple re-write so as to allow Reg to P-Res transfers to count towards that as it is a transfer to civilian life, just with the military on a part time basis.

As I see it if I was running the whole show, seeing this program actively hurting Reg to P-Res transfers (and likely general retention in a time where it is more critical than ever) would make me rethink the existence of that program as it incentivizes people leaving the CAF when we are actively trying to grow it.

 

[Quirky]

What is needed is a sustained influx of money and resources in to the specialist occupations and some unconventional ideas on how to increase training throughput of high-skilled trades.

That's already being done in aviation trades, some are by-passing Borden and heading into civy trade colleges. I wish I had that option instead of doing almost 2 years in CFSATE.

 

[Brad Sallows]

What are the incentives for people in easily filled trades to remuster to not easily filled trades, particularly after doing a short stretch or two in combat arms?

 

[Furniture]

Then rewrite the criteria of the program.

When it actively harms the CAF you make adjustments so it no longer does. A simple re-write so as to allow Reg to P-Res transfers to count towards that as it is a transfer to civilian life, just with the military on a part time basis.

As I see it if I was running the whole show, seeing this program actively hurting Reg to P-Res transfers (and likely general retention in a time where it is more critical than ever) would make me rethink the existence of that program as it incentivizes people leaving the CAF when we are actively trying to grow it.

That would require a complete teardown, and rebuild... We saw how that went with the New Veterans Charter.

There are other ways to incentivize the behaviors we want, that don't require tearing down a major benefit for CAF members.

 

[Quirky]

What are the incentives for people in easily filled trades to remuster to not easily filled trades, particularly after doing a short stretch or two in combat arms?

Remustering out of combat arms, into a spec trade, should be an incentive on it's own.

 

[Kirkhill]

Recruiting is doing its part in the mission. CFLRS is filling up every serial. And we aren't cheating this year either (like last year when we stole SIP from this year to do it). Are we missing some trades? Yes. Some are very difficult to fill up. But we can't recruit more than the training system can handle so what do people want from us? The Training system needs to flex now, and that's a lot harder to do than improve recruiting (because infrastructure etc...).

As far as retention goes, I know two people in my office who stayed because of the pay raise. I know another who was considering dropping their class B to do a civi job reconsider to CT to Reg F because of the pay change. And this year is the first year we'll see the retention bonus kick in. 5 yearsis the first year you get that bonus ($2000). So that's not statistics, its personal story, but those changes did address directly to one of the main complaints regarding retention that were out there. Pay.

I do expect them to fumble the ball here though on the re-calculation of CFHD, as a whole bunch of folks will see their allowances reduced as their pay increased significantly. Could be wrong though... gov't expects $130 million to be spent on it, so they better not "save" to much money. I know they are looking at changing the pay categories this year instead of just addressing rent costs in cities (also rent has gone down in a few places due to the condo market crash, so that's going to effect things).

If pay and bonuses are demonstrably that effective in adjusting behaviour the how about a bonus for transferring to the reserves after 2 years of service, or 5? How about a stipend for staying on the books and showing up 5 days a year to demonstrate fitness and refresh or show up for two weeks field work every five years?

Those bonuses and stipends would mean a lot to a youngster getting started in a civvy life. They would still be cheaper than maintaining rifles in barracks sweeping floors. Educational benefits. Tax relief. Group insurance. All of those can be used to encourage people to sign up for the reserves after being properly trained.

And, yes, all require the government to make changes in supporting rules, regulations and laws.

 

[brihard]

How common is it for members of the Regular Force to CT to Reserves after 2 to 5 years of service?

What advantage does it offer to the member?

I suspect most people who leave full-time service either willingly or unwillingly after 2-5 years want little to do with the CAF.

For context: I was a reservist for about 24 years in an urban regiment. To these two points: Most leaving the regs after a single term of service are going to be moving on to other life plans. Might be to go to school, might be working civvie, might be RegF life just doesn’t agree with them or their family. Some/many may still enjoy some aspects of service. Wherever/whatever they’re moving to- if PRes is accessible and something they deem worth their time, and if the incentives outweigh the disincentives, you’ll get some who want to come out and play and who bring phenomenal knowledge and experience. The pay raises certainly add more incentive. For the PRee, some of the best incentive is, I think, demanding and realistic training with good peers and good leadership. Most aren’t going it as a primary source of income, so the belonging and sense of accomplishment matter.

A lot of people don't want to transfer to the reserves after being in the regular force, as if you have served for six years, you are eligible for education and training benefits (6 years up to $40,000, 12 years up to $80,000). If you transfer to the reserves you can't apply for this till you release from the reserves.

It's a VAC programme not a CAF/DND one, so it's not that easy to solve.

The intent of the programme is to provide former CAF members with the skills/education to re-intigrate into civilian life successfully. Making it into a bonus while still serving completely changes the intent, and would likely result in backlash or other pay/compensation changes.

Then rewrite the criteria of the program.

When it actively harms the CAF you make adjustments so it no longer does. A simple re-write so as to allow Reg to P-Res transfers to count towards that as it is a transfer to civilian life, just with the military on a part time basis.

As I see it if I was running the whole show, seeing this program actively hurting Reg to P-Res transfers (and likely general retention in a time where it is more critical than ever) would make me rethink the existence of that program as it incentivizes people leaving the CAF when we are actively trying to grow it.

To these: VAC ETB is paying for the entirety of my masters degree and all associated expenses. The $40/80k. are indexed from 2018 so it’s around $49/98k Now, I made the decision to release independently of this, but had I still been in PRes when I felt the urge to go back to school I would absolutely have released.

ETB, as mentioned, is VAC and is intended to help transition CAF members to civilian life… PRes members are mostly already living civilian life, particularly RegF members who CT to PRes when they get that civvie job or go to school or what have you. Making it open to still serving reservists would still satisfy the intend of helping ‘stick the landing’, and would remove a substantial incentive to release. It might even help some to go to school full time, stay PRes part time, and *not*also need a civvie job, particularly given the potential for gainful PRes employment in the summer- essentially extending the full time student/PRes cohort to older students who have completed an initial six years with the regs. It might be worth some policy nerds gaming out to see the effect on recruiting, retention, and component transfers from Reg-Res.