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Canada moves to 2% GDP end of FY25/26 - PMMC

Remustering out of combat arms, into a spec trade, should be an incentive on it's own. πŸ˜›

Absolutely. Many COD warriors don't perceive anything other than sniping as a goal. Fine. Sign them up for that track as infanteer. It won't take them long to discover there is a whole other universe of options available to them.
 
If pay and bonuses are demonstrably that effective in adjusting behaviour the how about a bonus for transferring to the reserves after 2 years of service, or 5? How about a stipend for staying on the books and showing up 5 days a year to demonstrate fitness and refresh or show up for two weeks field work every five years?

Those bonuses and stipends would mean a lot to a youngster getting started in a civvy life. They would still be cheaper than maintaining rifles in barracks sweeping floors. Educational benefits. Tax relief. Group insurance. All of those can be used to encourage people to sign up for the reserves after being properly trained.

And, yes, all require the government to make changes in supporting rules, regulations and laws.
The PRes is already objectively quite well paid. In terms of pay and benefits it’s already a very competitive job prospect for young students, particularly given the effectively guaranteed full time summer employment and the seamless transition back to part time during the school year. While better education funding would of course help, increasing PRes recruiting and retention is at this point more a matter (I believe) of locating PRes units in more areas and more locally to newer communities, and simply offering more realistic and quality training- the β€˜army shit’ that the kids in their late teens and early twenties want to show up and actually do.
 
It's a VAC programme not a CAF/DND one, so it's not that easy to solve.

The intent of the programme is to provide former CAF members with the skills/education to re-intigrate into civilian life successfully. Making it into a bonus while still serving completely changes the intent, and would likely result in backlash or other pay/compensation changes.
That would require a complete teardown, and rebuild... We saw how that went with the New Veterans Charter.

There are other ways to incentivize the behaviors we want, that don't require tearing down a major benefit for CAF members.
It isn't that difficult to do. What the problem is that it isn't getting enough light at the right levels of the two departments and Treasury Board to make it an issue that they will work on to fix.

Calling it a complete tear down is overstating the problem. @brihard's suggestion is one way to accept the concept that a RegF member going to the ResF is in fact a transition to civvy life with a continued obligation and value to the CAF.

I can think of a dozen ways to incentivize education benefits as a means to encourage RegF members to willingly transfer to the ARes within the current funding model. I'm sure most of us here can too. The problem is that it isn't a big enough issue at all to get the attention it needs at the top. Maybe now that the thought is to try to expand the reserves it will.

🍻
 
That would require a complete teardown, and rebuild... We saw how that went with the New Veterans Charter.

There are other ways to incentivize the behaviors we want, that don't require tearing down a major benefit for CAF members.
Seeing as it is a pretty new benefit it can be changed as needed. It also isn’t a benefit for CAF members, it is a benefit for former CAF members, a distinct difference.

It actively encourages people to leave the CAF completely and provides no actual benefit to the CAF. I am sure individuals appreciate it, however what is good for individuals isn’t always good for the collective goals of the CAF (and vice versa).

A simple change to make it so they can access said benefit in the P-Res would beneficial. Maybe even increase the amount you can access if you continue to serve in the P-Res to encourage it more and help build a effective Reserve.
 
Remustering out of combat arms, into a spec trade, should be an incentive

It isn't that difficult to do. What the problem is that it isn't getting enough light at the right levels of the two departments and Treasury Board to make it an issue that they will work on to fix.

Calling it a complete tear down is overstating the problem. @brihard's suggestion is one way to accept the concept that a RegF member going to the ResF is in fact a transition to civvy life with a continued obligation and value to the CAF.

I can think of a dozen ways to incentivize education benefits as a means to encourage RegF members to willingly transfer to the ARes within the current funding model. I'm sure most of us here can too. The problem is that it isn't a big enough issue at all to get the attention it needs at the top. Maybe now that the thought is to try to expand the reserves it will.

🍻
My point isnt so much that it needs to be torn down, it's more that once the idea to change it comes up, there is strong potential for a very handy programme to become a gong show like the NVC.

People looking to save money, and make "improvements" will create new issues.

There are other ways to inventivize people to stay in/transfer to the PRes, and those should be explored and exploited before the ETB gets the NVC treatment.
 
The PRes is already objectively quite well paid. In terms of pay and benefits it’s already a very competitive job prospect for young students, particularly given the effectively guaranteed full time summer employment and the seamless transition back to part time during the school year. While better education funding wouldn’t course help, increasing PRes recruiting and retention is at this point more a matter (I believe) of locating PRes units in more areas and more locally to newer communities, and simply offering more realistic and quality training- the β€˜army shit’ that the kids in their late teens and early twenties want to show up and actually do.

More units in more places I can only agree with.

It was a common concern for prairie units going back at least to the Eighties when the Calgary Highlanders were denied the opportunity to establish a platoon at Drumheller an hour outside of Calgary that would have served rural communities within an hour and a half radius.
It was a problem when my civvy job moved me from Calgary to Lethbridge and the only local unit was an arty unit. I see that there is now a SALH troop or squadron sharing the same armoury.

How easy would it be for each armoury to have all district units found under all roofs?

....

I don't disagree with your comments about the adequacy of the compensation or the training. I do think that you and I have different expectations of the Reserve system generally.

My expectation is that the Reserve will supply a cheap source of trained mass that can be called up in a crisis. It is not necessarily about having people show up regularly for training. In fact that regular obligation could be counter productive if the intent is to secure the continuing services of a trained soldier. The Canadian system of regular attendance is designed to train people on a part-time, continuing-education, night-school type of way. If the soldier is trained what benefit do they get from filling in a pay sheet every Wednesday night?
 
It isn't that difficult to do. What the problem is that it isn't getting enough light at the right levels of the two departments and Treasury Board to make it an issue that they will work on to fix.

Calling it a complete tear down is overstating the problem. @brihard's suggestion is one way to accept the concept that a RegF member going to the ResF is in fact a transition to civvy life with a continued obligation and value to the CAF.

I can think of a dozen ways to incentivize education benefits as a means to encourage RegF members to willingly transfer to the ARes within the current funding model. I'm sure most of us here can too. The problem is that it isn't a big enough issue at all to get the attention it needs at the top. Maybe now that the thought is to try to expand the reserves it will.

🍻

Group insurance for people in the reserves would also be an incentive. Especially as provincial health plans become more financially challenged and people are looking for supplementary health coverage.
 
My point isnt so much that it needs to be torn down, it's more that once the idea to change it comes up, there is strong potential for a very handy programme to become a gong show like the NVC.

People looking to save money, and make "improvements" will create new issues.

There are other ways to inventivize people to stay in/transfer to the PRes, and those should be explored and exploited before the ETB gets the NVC treatment.
I don't disagree that this might happen. But that's a negative way of looking at it. I guess that I'm more of a "glass half full" type of guy.

NVC?

🍻
 
All of Saab worldwide is 30k. That includes their land systems, marine systems and ordinance businesses. The idea that Canada would have the equivalent of 40-50% of total Saab global employment for a fixed order of a few dozen jets stretches incredulity.
It does.

But given how wide reaching the discussions on economic benefits have reportedly gotten with the CPS deal it makes one question how clear the public picture is re: saab/Sweden, and whether the jobs figure is for the jet deal or contingent upon the jet deal.

And no- the scale of $ for jets vs subs is not the same- but the same or similar game might be played at a smaller (or more complex) level.
 
More units in more places I can only agree with.

It was a common concern for prairie units going back at least to the Eighties when the Calgary Highlanders were denied the opportunity to establish a platoon at Drumheller an hour outside of Calgary that would have served rural communities within an hour and a half radius.
It was aproblem when my civvy job moved me from Calgary to Lethbridge and the only local unit was an arty unit. I see that there is now a SALH troop or squadron sharing the same armoury.

How easy would it be for each armoury to have all district units found under all roofs?

....

I don't disagree with your comments about the adequacy of the compensation or the training. I do think that you and I have different expectations of the Reserve system generally.

My expectation is that the Reserve will supply a cheap source of trained mass that can be called up in a crisis. It is not necessarily about having people show up regularly for training. In fact that regular obligation could be counter productive if the intent is to secure the continuing services of a trained soldier. The Canadian system of regular attendance is designed to train people on a part-time, continuing-education, night-school type of way. If the soldier is trained what benefit do they get from filling in a pay sheet every Wednesday night?

IMO the regular training should aim primarily at currency in perishable skills - and there are a lot of perishable skills. It also keeps the camaraderie and connection up. A proper PRes training schedule should leverage the training nights to prepare the skills and kit for weekend or longer collective training events. It also helps keep a finger on the pulse of who shows up, and improves the ability to gauge performance and potential on a regular basis.

What we use the PRes for will vary. In an LSCO scenario, sure, maybe the Fort Frances Fusiliers, the Kenora Foresters, and the Wawa Regiment of Goose will contribute to beefing the Lake Superior Scottish up to a battalion for deployment. For all of the smaller and more realistic deployment scenarios it will probably continue to look like Afghanidtan or Latvia with rotational augmentees from levels of individual up to formed platoon.

But this just pulls us back to the broader question of β€œhow does Canada use its reserves”? I’ll generally stick to thoughts that apply to more or less the current/near future system and structure, or one-big-change-removed from that.
 
More units in more places I can only agree with.
I do too as long as they are in population centres that can support a viable unit. Many of the areas in Toronto are underserved with the amin armouries still clustered around the core while the population has spread far and wide.
It was a common concern for prairie units going back at least to the Eighties when the Calgary Highlanders were denied the opportunity to establish a platoon at Drumheller an hour outside of Calgary that would have served rural communities within an hour and a half radius.
These satellite platoons are hard to run and administer. The ARE actually has a concept for doing that through what are called "Independent Mission Element Administrative Support Cadre" (IMEASC) and "Detached Mission Element Administrative Support Cadre" (DMEASC). Most ARes units have an allocated establishment of roughly 40 some odd folks as the unit HQ and Svcs company. Very small units get a greatly reduced IMEASC as their headquarters (e.g. the SaskD or 116 Ind Fd Bty) while larger units with a sub-unit located at a distance from them get an DDMEASC which provides some additional manning to administer that subunit (such as 38 CER with a squadron in Winnipeg and another in Saskatoon)

The problem was one I had troubles with in 26 Fd Regt in Brandon in the late 70s. We already had a battery in Portage La Prairie (about 130 km east) which was already underperforming dramatically notwithstanding I had a RegF WO there to manage it, but the regiment was keen on setting up a troop in Dauphin (about a 170 kms north) where they had about a half dozen folks and where they left a panel van to bring them down for weekly parades and exercises. It was an absolute shit show and took up more administrative time and effort than the damn pipe band.
It was a problem when my civvy job moved me from Calgary to Lethbridge and the only local unit was an arty unit. I see that there is now a SALH troop or squadron sharing the same armoury.
We did that from time to time. It's actually easier under the ARE as there are a number of ATR positions on the establishments that can be filled by "visiting strangers."
How easy would it be for each armoury to have all district units found under all roofs?
That's a bigger and much more complex issue and I really don't see the benefit unless your aim is simply to have folks who are trained in the basic skills and only let out to do simple things like annual reclassifications or common to all stuff. By now you know that I favour the moving of the yardsticks to creating units with at least sub-unit collective training skills. That would be hard, but not impossible, to achieve. The question is whether the extra administrative burden is worth the effort. I'm not a fan of catering to everyone's particular preferences.

🍻
 
My regiment was formed in Calgary in 1910 as the 103rd Regiment of the Non-Permanent Active Militia.

In 1901 Calgary had a population of 4,091.
In 1906 it was 11,967
In 1911 it was 43,704.
This was during the Sifton wave of settlers.

The regiment was originally authorized a strength of 6 companies of 50 but that was increased to a full battalion of 8 companies of 50.
The 103rd Regiment adopted the nickname Calgary Rifles

In World War One it supplied troops to the 10th Bn CEF along with the 106th Regiment NPAM from Winnipeg, known as the Winnipeg Light Infantry.

During that time the 103rd supplied the organizational conduit for the 10th, 31st, 50th, 56th, 113th and 137th battalions of the CEF as well as supplying troops to administer two internment camps.

....

Frankly I don't see the problems with that system.
The regiments were numbered.
They adopted nicknames but morale patches and accoutrements were few.
On the declaration of war individual members were asked to volunteer for overseas service. Just as they were in WW2, and Korea and Afghanistan.
Those individuals were then formed into battalions, brigades, divisions and corps according to the needs of the times.

We have zero tradition of forming units in peacetime, training and equipping the units, and ordering them to war as formed units.

In WW2 the Calgary Highlanders Regiment was ordered to raise a battalion for overseas service from volunteers from their regiment. That was the 1st Bn Calg Highrs (CASF - Canadian Active Service Force). The regiment also raised a 2nd Bn for home defence that stayed in Calgary, 2nd Bn Calg Highrs (NPAM) under the 1940 National Resources Mobilization Act. The 1st Bn disbanded in Europe in1945 and regiment was continued post war by the 2nd Bn.

....

The local regiment was an administrative entity charged with raising troops for duties. Some of those duties were with tactical elements for expeditionary service. Some were tasked with security and administrative duties domestically.

....

Even the 50 man company is looking more viable in the modern context. Especially if distributed across all the armouries in the brigade area.



1767552230273.jpeg

That was the original uniform of the 103rd Regiment. Still looks perfectly seviceable today, in my opinion.
 
I do too as long as they are in population centres that can support a viable unit. Many of the areas in Toronto are underserved with the amin armouries still clustered around the core while the population has spread far and wide.

These satellite platoons are hard to run and administer. The ARE actually has a concept for doing that through what are called "Independent Mission Element Administrative Support Cadre" (IMEASC) and "Detached Mission Element Administrative Support Cadre" (DMEASC). Most ARes units have an allocated establishment of roughly 40 some odd folks as the unit HQ and Svcs company. Very small units get a greatly reduced IMEASC as their headquarters (e.g. the SaskD or 116 Ind Fd Bty) while larger units with a sub-unit located at a distance from them get an DDMEASC which provides some additional manning to administer that subunit (such as 38 CER with a squadron in Winnipeg and another in Saskatoon)

The problem was one I had troubles with in 26 Fd Regt in Brandon in the late 70s. We already had a battery in Portage La Prairie (about 130 km east) which was already underperforming dramatically notwithstanding I had a RegF WO there to manage it, but the regiment was keen on setting up a troop in Dauphin (about a 170 kms north) where they had about a half dozen folks and where they left a panel van to bring them down for weekly parades and exercises. It was an absolute shit show and took up more administrative time and effort than the damn pipe band.

We did that from time to time. It's actually easier under the ARE as there are a number of ATR positions on the establishments that can be filled by "visiting strangers."

That's a bigger and much more complex issue and I really don't see the benefit unless your aim is simply to have folks who are trained in the basic skills and only let out to do simple things like annual reclassifications or common to all stuff. By now you know that I favour the moving of the yardsticks to creating units with at least sub-unit collective training skills. That would be hard, but not impossible, to achieve. The question is whether the extra administrative burden is worth the effort. I'm not a fan of catering to everyone's particular preferences.

🍻


With respect @FJAG both of us suffer from that-was-then-this-is-now perceptions. Satellite organizations of larger corporate entities are the order of the day. Right down to the individual level. That system is maintained by distributed administration by electronic means and by distributed information by electronic means that permit individuals to rapidly access information they don't know when confronted by new problems.

Distributed, continual individual training should be a thing. Administering and conducting small unit training in a classroom by Zoom or Teams should be a thing.

Monthly collective exercises, with arranged transport from the satellites to the site of the training event should be a thing.
 
It would be interesting to know how the 48th Squadron, 31st Combat Engineer Regiment (TheElgins) are making out with their HQ at business unit B1, 550 Parkside Drive, in a Waterloo industrial park.

Or 4th Squadron, 38th Signals Regiment at 2321 Hanselman Ave in Saskatoon.
 
A reader posted an interesting thesis in another forum, possibly worth considering in this discussion. YMMV.

A serious service injury can permanently collapse your civilian life β€” and the system is not designed to replace what you lose.

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That's already being done in aviation trades, some are by-passing Borden and heading into civy trade colleges. I wish I had that option instead of doing almost 2 years in CFSATE.
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