Canada moves to 2% GDP end of FY25/26 - PMMC

[Underway]

My issue with CFAT is I have met someone who did a trade for a decade successfully (pre CFAT), but got out and when they went to go back in couldn’t get in the same trade because their CFAT score was too low.

If that was the only issue (its never is the only issue, there is almost always more to the story) they could have gotten a waiver. I've done it multiple times for that exact same situation.

 

[Brad Sallows]

algebra - never.

Algebra is so common that people probably don't realize when they're using it.

 

[lenaitch]

I know nothing of military recruiting, but any method of humans evaluating humans is going to be imperfect. However, shoving everybody that comes through the door into training seems like a waste of valuable resources.

 

[YZT580]

I know nothing of military recruiting, but any method of humans evaluating humans is going to be imperfect. However, shoving everybody that comes through the door into training seems like a waste of valuable resources.

decades ago Tommy Wong purchased an ATC510 simulator that he would use to evaluate a would-be student pilot's ability to learn to fly. For those unfamiliar that was a stationary video simulator that sat on a desk. No motion simply instrumentation that responded to inputs. No one failed! The other side of the thought would be to put the same student into a modern Airbus simulator. No one would pass. Many aptitude exams favour the more advanced option expecting people to know more than they do and in possession of skills that are learnt but are not inherent. They may also lean towards textbook knowledge rather than the practical side.

 

[Halifax Tar]

I'm in a Centre but posted out west this summer.

My thoughts for Naval BMQ is go for it. I did a NavRes BMOQ and it was amazing. Divisions named after our three carriers instead of numbered platoons. All the ranks were naval aside from a few support staff. And when we finished we went straight into MARS 2 (or whatever NETP is called now) with the same cohort.

There is also and Airforce BMQ coming as well. With the numbers we are expecting for SIP this year we're going to need a lot of more BMQ's more geographically distributed again. I expect closer to 10'000 recruits as this years numbers for SIP, which is 3000 more than what we just did. It's going to be a very heavy lift for everyone involved.

I appreciate your insighta.

And good on the RCAF the sooner we un-JARMY everything the better.

 

[PuckChaser]

I appreciate your insighta.

And good on the RCAF the sooner we un-JARMY everything the better.

The Army will be happy to be done hearing the whining from RCN too.

 

[SeaKingTacco]

decades ago Tommy Wong purchased an ATC510 simulator that he would use to evaluate a would-be student pilot's ability to learn to fly. For those unfamiliar that was a stationary video simulator that sat on a desk. No motion simply instrumentation that responded to inputs. No one failed! The other side of the thought would be to put the same student into a modern Airbus simulator. No one would pass. Many aptitude exams favour the more advanced option expecting people to know more than they do and in possession of skills that are learnt but are not inherent. They may also lean towards textbook knowledge rather than the practical side.

There is a key phrase in your first sentence that requires stressing “…evaluate a would-be pilot’s ability to learn to fly”.

It actually does not matter how well a student candidate does at the beginning of whatever selection simulator session that you envision. What you are actually trying to measure is the delta between how the candidate started and how much/quickly they improved over the session, based upon the input from simulator operator. It could be that someone who did terrible at the beginning of the session but was very measurably less terrible by the end is a better candidate to hire than someone who is nearly perfect at the beginning but shows no noticeable improvement over the session. The first candidate is demonstrating teachability. The second candidate- not so much. Remember- we want aircrew that can learn to fly (quickly) the way the RCAF wants them to fly. Not the way they “want” to fly.

 

[Halifax Tar]

The Army will be happy to be done hearing the whining from RCN too.

Amicable divorces should always be the goal

 

[Kirkhill]

One thing that needs to be kept in mind is the ability of individuals to change, adapt and grow.

Maybe an individual, on the day they join, are only capable of humping ammo cans for an MG team or peeling spuds for the cooks.

But that individual may discover they enjoy working the kitchen and it motivates to become a cook or kitchen manager.

Or perhaps they discover a liking for machine guns, machine gun operations and defensive tactics.

There is a way to work with just about any individual and fit them into the puzzle.

I am a fan of enlisting all comers and giving them a shot.

The guy with the ammo cans may not become a radar tech. But maybe he does.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

A young person at 18, can be very much a different person by 28, not just due to education, but experience and the peers and leaders around them. It was a series of good leaders and mentors that helped me get out of a self-made hole when I was young and find a path that worked for me. As we solve the basic recruiting issues and trade training issues, developing good leaders and mentors, both from our existing cadre and from this new stock is going to be the key to success or failure.

 

[Underway]

The Army will be happy to be done hearing the whining from RCN too.

When I was in pre-deployment for TF Afghanistan in 09 we had a mixed section of RCN and Army folks. During Maple "insert noun/verb here" one of the training staff army Sgt's who just got back from ROTO pulled the army folks aside, and told them to stop giving the RCN folks such a hard time.

"When it comes down to it, they will perform, they know what its like to work in not ideal situations without ideal equipment in bad weather/environments. They will work like hell to achieve the mission, they won't do it the way you folks do, but they will do it".

I love the army, and those who work there. Airforce I try to figure them out but... so weird sometimes! Lol.

Amicable divorces should always be the goal

There is a lot of reorg coming, Med Techs (now split into Combat Medics and Paramedics) are only wearing army uniforms. We'll see if that carries its way through the rest of the Med branch. MP's similar, only army uniforms going forward IIRC.

The CAF is going to get to big for us to keep the Unification stream going as tight as it once was. We're heading to more of a split in the future as all the seperate elements are looking to reduce training time and focus their trainees.

 

[ArmyRick]

The CAF is going to get to big for us to keep the Unification stream going as tight as it once was

This will be interesting to see how it unfolds.

 

[lenaitch]

I am a fan of enlisting all comers and giving them a shot.

So everybody who comes through the door (barring security clearance, etc.)? Put's a hell of a strain on training. I figure each step in the process is also a step in gate keeping.

A young person at 18, can be very much a different person by 28, not just due to education, but experience and the peers and leaders around them.

Not to mention they say the brain doesn't fully mature until the mid-20s (varies by sex). If that's a mean, I figure I was on the latter part of the curve.

 

[YZT580]

There is a key phrase in your first sentence that requires stressing “…evaluate a would-be pilot’s ability to learn to fly”.

It actually does not matter how well a student candidate does at the beginning of whatever selection simulator session that you envision. What you are actually trying to measure is the delta between how the candidate started and how much/quickly they improved over the session, based upon the input from simulator operator. It could be that someone who did terrible at the beginning of the session but was very measurably less terrible by the end is a better candidate to hire than someone who is nearly perfect at the beginning but shows no noticeable improvement over the session. The first candidate is demonstrating teachability. The second candidate- not so much. Remember- we want aircrew that can learn to fly (quickly) the way the RCAF wants them to fly. Not the way they “want” to fly.

I wasn't really trying to focus on pilot training in my comment but you certainly zeroed in on a pertinent point re: any aptitude test. I have been part of several developmental exercises and from that experience I learned that the people that Transport hired to set create the tests weren't particularly interested in the views of the people who were actually working in the field and spent very little time assessing why the people they were talking to were good at what they did. The end result was several years of wasted recruiting. Hopefully when they start upgrading your assessment process the resources experts will spend a lot of time identifying what makes you good.

 

[Brad Sallows]

A young person at 18, can be very much a different person by 28, not just due to education, but experience and the peers and leaders around them. It was a series of good leaders and mentors that helped me get out of a self-made hole when I was young and find a path that worked for me. As we solve the basic recruiting issues and trade training issues, developing good leaders and mentors, both from our existing cadre and from this new stock is going to be the key to success or failure.

And then by 58, accumulated experience and cynicism change things in another direction...

 

[Kirkhill]

So everybody who comes through the door (barring security clearance, etc.)? Put's a hell of a strain on training. I figure each step in the process is also a step in gate keeping.

It depends if you see training young minds as a benefit to society.

And if you see the forces as a contributor to that process.

Wolf Cub, Boy Scout, Cadet....Militiaman, Soldier, Tech, Officer?

Not to mention they say the brain doesn't fully mature until the mid-20s (varies by sex). If that's a mean, I figure I was on the latter part of the curve.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

So everybody who comes through the door (barring security clearance, etc.)? Put's a hell of a strain on training. I figure each step in the process is also a step in gate keeping.


Not to mention they say the brain doesn't fully mature until the mid-20s (varies by sex). If that's a mean, I figure I was on the latter part of the curve.

How many of our historical war hero's would not make it through our processes now?

 

[lenaitch]

How many of our historical war hero's would not make it through our processes now?

Fair point, and standards shift to match the need. How many lives were lost by the ineffectual leaders that did make it through.

My two points are no system is perfect, and if the system lets everybody through the door, the rest of the system better be designed to handle the influx.

 

[lenaitch]

It depends if you see training young minds as a benefit to society.

And if you see the forces as a contributor to that process.

Wolf Cub, Boy Scout, Cadet....Militiaman, Soldier, Tech, Officer?

So long as those broader, loftier goals are baked into the CAF recruiting and training systems, then good.