Canada moves to 2% GDP end of FY25/26 - PMMC

[FJAG]

Regardless, there's no excuse for a CAF recruiting system, what should be a thorough selection gateway, to lower standards for anyone (recent immigrant or not) to the extent that we are apparently seeing here.

Here's the thing. Canada and its provinces have had fairly broad human rights legislation for many, many decades now. It sets a high bar for what has to be tolerated by society in general and governments and employers in particular. There is a strict standard of what duty every agency has to accommodate. Accommodation is rarely easy but compulsory none the less unless you can establish some bona fide occupational requirement. The CAF finds itself between a rock and a hard place in finding the right balance especially when trying to justify the universality of service concept when only a fraction of the force actually is involved in what we one could consider dangerous jobs.

We went through this whole process back in the 1980s with admitting females to the "combat arms" trades and it wasn't a pretty process. There is a perpetual fear at the top end that the CAF will be brought kicking and screaming into another such process where outsiders - who just don't understand because they are all woke appointees - will make the decision. Risk aversion plays a large part here. One person's "lowered standards" is another person's "appropriate accommodation." The even bigger concern we should have isn't that we need a tighter selection gateway, but that we may have to institute even more demanding processes to accommodate - accept, train and employ - individuals who fail standards that we can't satisfactorily prove to be BFOR.

 

[WestIsle]

Worked in recruiting when this decision was made. Lots of issues around people wanting/demanding to be officers only to think their job is to have NCOs wait on them like servants(before even being trained), not expecting to have to work, and of course producing documents for security screenings that were written by hand in some cases from some unknown village(somehow was good enough for Citizenship $ Immigration Canada). At least the reserves can just decline people for the job. Needless to say issues were raised to PSOs who didnt seem to understand that people would have to pass basic but....that wasnt their purview.

More long term is going to be the issue of medicals as the entire system is based off of people having a medical history and knowing what is wrong with them while being honest. Many people though dont disclose medical issues or are even aware of them. Particularly diabetes in South Asian counties. Lots of people will be going to veterans affairs soon as they cant work in the CAF. This was also brought up to PSOs but ignored.

Between PSOs and TDOs attempting to water down the CAF you really have to wonder if we should make those jobs courses you take once already trained and experienced versus straight from university with a masters degree.

 

[WestIsle]

Is this a recruiting system issue, or a political control issue ?

For all we know someone advised this being a bad idea, but the political picture is worth more than results. With our current and former Gov I tend to believe their political picture is more valuable than results and effect. Who knows, I could be wrong.

Government pushed for PRs to be able to apply not the military. There were lots of concerns from people within regarding security concerns that were not addressed till about 6 months into the decision which caught the military by surprise at the time.

 

[QV]

Nope.

View attachment 100085

I just can't understand how this situation ever came to be. Right out of left field!

 

[dapaterson]

Bullshit on PSOs and TDOs trying to water down the CAF.

Direction to abandon CFAT and other dubious choices were made at rank levels well above them.

 

[QV]

Abandoning CFAT and other choices or open up recruitment to PRs... but not both. Both is now a perfect storm of shit.

 

[Halifax Tar]

I just can't understand how this situation ever came to be. Right out of left field!

I am shocked I tell you, just shocked

Anecdotally, the most racist person I ever work with was a Chinese immigrant who joined the CAF. Dude thought everyone was below his race with a special descending scale as ones pigmentation darkend.

 

[ytz]

And Canada's banker PM has got himself a new bank to manage.
Out with the Net Zero bank
In with the Defence bank.

Canada selected to host new multinational defence bank, sources say

Bank will provide long-term, low-cost financing for defence projects undertaken by participating countries

www.theglobeandmail.com

It's all just money.

Funny thing about bankers. They love indebted customers.

You act like the defence industrial base isn't important. Who do you think is going to fund and manage the development of all that? And we have history on this.....

 

[daftandbarmy]

Bullshit on PSOs and TDOs trying to water down the CAF.

Direction to abandon CFAT and other dubious choices were made at rank levels well above them.

Which reminds me of a famous musical

 

[Kirkhill]

You act like the defence industrial base isn't important. Who do you think is going to fund and manage the development of all that? And we have history on this.....

There is a stretch too far, man.

Of course industrial strategy is important. And of course the sinews of war are money.

Perhaps Carney is just the man for the job. But is his hammer the bank? As in: give a man a hammer and everything looks like a nail?

Banking is, absolutely, Carney's comfort zone. But is that what we need today? Or does our Prime Miister need to encompass other things? I think he does. Just as every other Prime Minister has had to.

In Britain their Prime Minister can't get over being a lawyer.

It has been a longstanding opinion of mine that the death of a company is presaged by the promotion of the accountant and the lawyer to CEO. They get lost in rules and process and just do not grasp the value of risk-taking, the very attribute that launched and grew the company in the first place.

 

[Czech_pivo]

There is a stretch too far, man.

Of course industrial strategy is important. And of course the sinews of war are money.

Perhaps Carney is just the man for the job. But is his hammer the bank? As in: give a man a hammer and everything looks like a nail?

Banking is, absolutely, Carney's comfort zone. But is that what we need today? Or does our Prime Miister need to encompass other things? I think he does. Just as every other Prime Minister has had to.

In Britain their Prime Minister can't get over being a lawyer.

It has been a longstanding opinion of mine that the death of a company is presaged by the promotion of the accountant and the lawyer to CEO. They get lost in rules and process and just do not grasp the value of risk-taking, the very attribute that launched and grew the company in the first place.

Yes and no in my humble opinion.

Litigious lawyers are some of the best known risk takers out there. They search for every possible angle or schtick to gain the advantage over their adversary. A litigious corporate lawyer - a balls to the wall CEO if there ever was one. They can be just as bad as putting in the Accountant/Lawyer types that you are referring to - at the opposite end of the risk adverse group.

 

[Kirkhill]

Yes and no in my humble opinion.

Litigious lawyers are some of the best known risk takers out there. They search for every possible angle or schtick to gain the advantage over their adversary. A litigious corporate lawyer - a balls to the wall CEO if there ever was one. They can be just as bad as putting in the Accountant/Lawyer types that you are referring to - at the opposite end of the risk adverse group.

I haven't run into many of those within corporate structures. The ones you refer have generally been on the outside threatening law suits.

 

[ytz]

There is a stretch too far, man.

Of course industrial strategy is important. And of course the sinews of war are money.

Perhaps Carney is just the man for the job. But is his hammer the bank? As in: give a man a hammer and everything looks like a nail?

Banking is, absolutely, Carney's comfort zone. But is that what we need today? Or does our Prime Miister need to encompass other things? I think he does. Just as every other Prime Minister has had to.

You're misunderstanding what the point of the institution is and the role of the PM. Having the bank in Canada will absolutely boost investment in our defence sector. It's only natural because those bankers will rub shoulders with our industry execs. It's not Carney's job to run the bank. His job was to get it here.

 

[Czech_pivo]

I haven't run into many of those within corporate structures. The ones you refer have generally been on the outside threatening law suits.

Mostly they are but I've know a few on the other side, both here in TO and down in Beantown.

 

[Czech_pivo]

You're misunderstanding what the point of the institution is and the role of the PM. Having the bank in Canada will absolutely boost investment in our defence sector. It's only natural because those bankers will rub shoulders with our industry execs. It's not Carney's job to run the bank. His job was to get it here.

Not only getting it here, getting the deposits here in Canada as well. Adding another 3.500 well paying jobs to staff this bank is no small thing either.

 

[RangerRay]

Ifs offset by being beside possibly the most mediocre town in Western Canada.

In fairness, I’ll give Brandon a couple of bright spots.

Shawarma Queen on Victoria Ave. Better than a lot of shawarma and donair places in Winnipeg

Sabor Latino on 9th St for really awesome authentic Central American food. Great ambiance and vibe.

It’s also a couple hours closer to my home country.

 

[GR66]

“These initial platoons were also made up of candidates with as little as three months residency in Canada, leading to a significant culture shock as candidates had not yet acclimatized to Canadian society, let alone Canadian military culture.”

I'd love to know how a non-resident made it through the recruiting process and into basic in THREE MONTHS

 

[Furniture]

I'd love to know how a non-resident made it through the recruiting process and into basic in THREE MONTHS

Top of the priority pile...

Even if not explicitly told to make PRs the top priority, some people seeking to look good to the bosses will take steps to make themselves look good by overzealously pushing the new thing.

 

[Eaglelord17]

Meh PRs and lack of CFATs aren’t the issue. The fact we think we need to pass 100% of recruits is.

I am all for a heavy culling during recruit training for unsuitable candidates, we do a disservice by pushing to pass everyone even when it is obvious they don’t belong.

Most jobs have a 3-6 month probationary period where they can dismiss people for any reason at all. The CAF needs to practice that (if not longer/more aggressively) and weed out those unsuited before they get too far in their careers.

 

[YZT580]

As an outsider reading this, it doesn't sound like good news.....

https://archive.ph/OalDz

Success rate for basic training in Canadian military drops, report says​

I'm not as concerned about the title as I am about the snippet of info I'm clipping below.
“These initial platoons were also made up of candidates with as little as three months residency in Canada, leading to a significant culture shock as candidates had not yet acclimatized to Canadian society, let alone Canadian military culture.”

He cited an example of one French-speaking platoon with permanent residents that had a graduation rate of 48 per cent. Lt.-Col. Kieley said it was plagued by allegations of racism and infighting between cultural groups within the unit, such as people from Cameroon “against those from Côte d’Ivoire.”

I pray that this sort of stuff doesn't result in some 'blue on blue' conflicts during a live fire exercise.
Lt.-Col. Kieley said a significant number of permanent resident recruits had unrealistic expectation of life in the Canadian Armed Forces, including the likelihood they might be posted outside their hometown. A “surprising number believed they would simply go home after basic training.”
He cited other cultural issues, particularly among officer training. “For some, it is also the first time they have been expected to treat women as their peers.”
“Most recently an ordained Anglican minister was enrolled as an artillery officer, leading to questions about what career counselling was provided” to this person. They were “ultimately unsuccessful” at officer training ”due to their discomfort with handling the service rifle," it said.

Wow - how was this person not steered toward the Chaplaincy or HR/Counseling or an Admin role? Its like assigning a Vegan to the Abattoir section.

Decades ago we did training for Ugandan Controllers under the auspices of the UN. They represented two different ethnic groups who were literally blood enemies in the Hadfield and McCoy traditions. We ended up running two courses and training them in separated facilities. Mine is not the only story re: cultural mixing. You would think they would learn unless they were deliberately setting that course up to fail.