Canada to Spend $5.0Bil on AEW Aircraft (Saab Globaleye)

[calculus]

Interesting article in Skies on GlobalEye. Seems to confirm AAR, as well as assembly in Canada (of some).

GlobalEye in the sky - Skies Mag

Canada and NATO have launched discussions with Saab for the AEW&C aircraft. Here’s why Canada matters to Saab.

skiesmag.com

 

[HavokFour]

2 more 6500's on order for South Korea's EW program, on top of the 4 already announced in October for AEW&C.

Bombardier Defense to provide the Global 6500 aircraft for a second special mission program in South Korea

Bombardier Defense to provide the Global 6500 aircraft for a second special mission program in South Korea

bombardier.com

 

[HavokFour]

Canada gets to build a third of the GlobalEye's.

https://twitter.com/x/status/2077786558212517974

 

[Rainbow1910]

Canada gets to build a third of the GlobalEye's.

https://twitter.com/x/status/2077786558212517974

Uh, how is 1/3 of all GlobalEye’s being manufactured in Canada different than the status quo before we entered the program? Bombardier provided the base aircraft, are we getting nothing more out of this partnership?

 

[daftandbarmy]

Uh, how is 1/3 of all GlobalEye’s being manufactured in Canada different than the status quo before we entered the program? Bombardier provided the base aircraft, are we getting nothing more out of this partnership?

We get to do this to the USA, which was one of the primary goals IIRC

 

[calculus]

Maybe not.

US still pressures Canada to buy E-7 Wedgetail airborne radars during tariff talks despite GlobalEye selection

US leverages trade and tariff talks to press Canada into buying Boeing E-7 Wedgetail airborne radar jets over selected Saab GlobalEye aircraft. Ottawa faces pressure on a multi-billion-dollar defense deal while balancing Canadian aerospace jobs, Arctic surveillance, and economic trade relief.

www.armyrecognition.com

 

[Czech_pivo]

Maybe not.

US still pressures Canada to buy E-7 Wedgetail airborne radars during tariff talks despite GlobalEye selection

US leverages trade and tariff talks to press Canada into buying Boeing E-7 Wedgetail airborne radar jets over selected Saab GlobalEye aircraft. Ottawa faces pressure on a multi-billion-dollar defense deal while balancing Canadian aerospace jobs, Arctic surveillance, and economic trade relief.

www.armyrecognition.com

I hope that we do not change course on this.

 

[KevinB]

Uh, how is 1/3 of all GlobalEye’s being manufactured in Canada different than the status quo before we entered the program? Bombardier provided the base aircraft, are we getting nothing more out of this partnership?

Saab is notorious for bending ‘partners’ over.

 

[Nvlgzr]

Uh, how is 1/3 of all GlobalEye’s being manufactured in Canada different than the status quo before we entered the program? Bombardier provided the base aircraft, are we getting nothing more out of this partnership?

Isn’t Canada expected to integrate and test our aircraft and some of the NATO aircraft.

 

[YZT580]

I hope that we do not change course on this.

SAAB and Bombardier are talking about 40 or more a/c. Those are orders not going to Boeing so you can bet there is a lot of pressure on Trump to do something about the loss.

 

[Good2Golf]

Isn’t Canada expected to integrate and test our aircraft and some of the NATO aircraft.

A reasonable expectation, to increase capabilities that could directly support security of Europe as well as support its industrial defence capacity. I don’t see a burning necessity for it to be a hard integration into *NORAD other than the same kind of integration that other non-MADL or non-IFDL equipped aircraft might need like legacy ANG F-16 and F-15 jets.

 

[KevinB]

SAAB and Bombardier are talking about 40 or more a/c. Those are orders not going to Boeing so you can bet there is a lot of pressure on Trump to do something about the loss.

Given he is the reason, it is hard for him to do much about it.

He’s managed to sink US Defense companies, and ensure non American Defense Companies have decades worth of work.

 

[Retired AF Guy]

Maybe not.

US still pressures Canada to buy E-7 Wedgetail airborne radars during tariff talks despite GlobalEye selection

US leverages trade and tariff talks to press Canada into buying Boeing E-7 Wedgetail airborne radar jets over selected Saab GlobalEye aircraft. Ottawa faces pressure on a multi-billion-dollar defense deal while balancing Canadian aerospace jobs, Arctic surveillance, and economic trade relief.

www.armyrecognition.com

That's kind of funny considering that back in June the USAF announced it was cancelling the E-7 Wedgetail because of cost over runs and survivability issues.

Air Force cancels E-7 Wedgetail, citing survivability and cost concerns - Breaking Defense

"We are bullish on space, and we think that’s a capability that can be achieved actually faster than the E-7 will deliver at this point," a senior military official said.

breakingdefense.com

 

[KevinB]

That's kind of funny considering that back in June the USAF announced it was cancelling the E-7 Wedgetail because of cost over runs and survivability issues.

Air Force cancels E-7 Wedgetail, citing survivability and cost concerns - Breaking Defense

"We are bullish on space, and we think that’s a capability that can be achieved actually faster than the E-7 will deliver at this point," a senior military official said.

breakingdefense.com

Until it was realized it was more survivable and way more capable than the E3 and E2 (which one had to wonder what sort of drugged up crazy thought that was a viable option), as well as the uncomfortable issue that Space is an option, but cannot be the only one.

 

[childs56]

Saab is notorious for bending ‘partners’ over.

As opposed to any of the other Defense contractors in the US.

I think Canada needs to support Canadian Companies as much as possible for the foreseeable future. The US is no longer the preferred supplier for all defense equipment.

I think the US is looking at the amount of money that has left the table for their industries. Hopefully Canada does not waffle on this matter creating sour tastes from our new forward looking partners

 

[KevinB]

As opposed to any of the other Defense contractors in the US.

Saab and some other European companies generally make US ones look benevolent.

I think Canada needs to support Canadian Companies as much as possible for the foreseeable future. The US is no longer the preferred supplier for all defense equipment.

I can totally understand that, even before 47 decided to veer of the preferred vendor freely onto the offramp to unpalatable, this should have been occurring -- JV’ing where it makes sense, but ensuring that domestic production was available for the majority of items.

I think the US is looking at the amount of money that has left the table for their industries. Hopefully Canada does not waffle on this matter creating sour tastes from our new forward looking partners

I mean in world environment where US Defense items are effective and (generally) available, this administration has managed to make pretty much everyone look elsewhere first.
Even when generally what would otherwise be “no brainer” items come up (in terms of performance, interoperability etc)-- there is a desire to look elsewhere.

 

[YZT580]

Saab and some other European companies generally make US ones look benevolent.


I can totally understand that, even before 47 decided to veer of the preferred vendor freely onto the offramp to unpalatable, this should have been occurring -- JV’ing where it makes sense, but ensuring that domestic production was available for the majority of items.


I mean in world environment where US Defense items are effective and (generally) available, this administration has managed to make pretty much everyone look elsewhere first.
Even when generally what would otherwise be “no brainer” items come up (in terms of performance, interoperability etc)-- there is a desire to look elsewhere.

as Ukraine is proving, the 80% category works just fine if you can have it now.

 

[KevinB]

as Ukraine is proving, the 80% category works just fine if you can have it now.

I would say Ukraine is proving that having anything is better nothing.

 

[ytz]

Until it was realized it was more survivable and way more capable than the E3 and E2 (which one had to wonder what sort of drugged up crazy thought that was a viable option), as well as the uncomfortable issue that Space is an option, but cannot be the only one.

Space is an option..... Only for the US. Not so much for the rest of us. There really is only one company that can pull off the line of global coverage the Pentagon wants. The same one that is also building a global comms network for the Pentagon (which could (likely is) carry other sensors).

For everybody else? There's a spectrum. We absolutely can and will use space based radar for coverage over certain AOIs. But it would still take us two decades to get to the capability the Americans want to get to globally in one. In that time, and to enable expeditionary ops beyond, we need air breathers.

I don't think the USAF is wrong either on survivability. The PLAAF designed the J-20 with exceptionally long range. The PL-21 missile has exceptionally long range for a BVRAAM. The size of their sixth Gen fighters implies long range. None of this is optimized to take American fighters head on over Taiwan. Instead they are designed to fly unpredictable routes and kill tankers and emitters in the rear.

Even in a Latvia scenario, I question the survivability of manned AEWC that is any closer than say 200 km from the leading edge of friendlies. We have seen Russians kill a Ukrainian fighter at 190km using an R-37M. Similar to Chinese PL-15.

The question becomes. At what point in the development cycle does a single large manned AEWC become obsolete because the standoff required eats up too much detection range? To me the eventual approach has to be some kind of quarterback approach. Either an airborne or ground based command node using a network of drones with sensors that can get closer and are less painful to lose. I would hope Globaleye and the like are being designed to transition to that quarterback role.

The Globaleye, for us, is at best, relevant through the 2030s. We'll definitely need to have a conversation on survivability beyond that. Or at least at that point, the conversation will become public.....