Canada's Black Watch (history - merged)

[Danjanou]

I think Michael is referring to the battle of May-sur-Orne (25/07/44) in the Normandy campaign. The RHR took very heavy casualties trying to take an enemy held position with a frontal assault up a slope.

The CBC "documentary" The Valour and The Horror by the infamous McKenna brothers a few years back covered the battle and with their particular anti military slant made it worse out than it probably was. Not to say the casualties weren‘t high though.

Ghost recce, know both that parade square and monument well.

Art, funny I did put them in my original post, but left them out when I was checking facts from the book for the second post. Sorry about that, now corrected.

 

[westernarmymember]

Interesting, thanks. I have been doing some research into the unit for a project I am working on for my Father. If anyone else has any info/sites (especially leading up to & during their deployment to Korea) I would be very interested. E-mail is also available.

 

[Michael Dorosh]

The Black Watch was wiped out again on Friday the 13th in October 1944 - Black Friday. One company of 90 men was reduced to just 4! They were attacking a railway embankment at the neck of the South Beveland Peninsula. They had a tough time in Holland, not just Normandy.

By the way, the last Regular Force QOR dude served in Calgary into the 1980s; an MWO also supernumery, IIRC; I joined in 1987 and he was still a fixture here with his black badges. I seem to recall he was not a transfer from the Toronto militia regiment, but an honest-to-God regular who never rebadged. (The QOR were busted from a regular force regiment at about the same time as the Black Watch).

The kilt was banned in late 1939 as unsuitable for modern war; small quantities were taken to England (1/3 of Canada‘s infantry battalions in the fighting divisions in WW II were Highland or Scottish) for wear on leave or parades.

The Black Watch sent a company to Dieppe (to Blue Beach to fight alongside Toronto‘s Royal Regiment of Canada); on the boat over a grenade was incorrectly primed and killed a number of men, and then the **** of the landings (Blue Beach was a devastating rout, 500+ Canadians were held off by only 60 Germans in concrete positions on top of a cliff).

The Watch landed in Normandy in July - Verrierres Ridge is the battle the other posters have correctly mentioned - 325 troops from the rifle companies went forward, 15 answered the roll the next day.

The battalion was reconstituted, fought with 2nd Division at Falaise in August, the September on the Channel Coast and into Belgium, then Black Friday in October. No time to stop, though, they fought down the South Beveland Isthmus and sent a company across the Walcheren Causeway, which was repelled with terrible losses.

November to February was a quiet spell in the Nijmegen Salient, then the Rhineland fighting and into northern Holland and Germany in March and April 1945.

The Black Watch suffered more casualties than any other Canadian infantry battalion in NW Europe (excepting those that had also fought in Italy, as Art points out).

 

[westernarmymember]

You seem quite knowledgeable on the subject. An interest of yours?

 

[pyro_208]

I had a grandfather who was part of The Black Watch, He got shot a Vimy and gased at Ypres. In total I think the regiment holds 43 Battle Honours.

 

[Danjanou]

You seem quite knowledgeable on the subject. An interest of yours?

Not really, but as the Military History Forum moderator I should at least be able to answer questions here and take 5 minutes to do research.

 

[Spr.Earl]

I know of Retired Sapper‘s when they joined went through the Black Watch Training Depot before moving on to Chilliwack for Engineer Trade‘s Training.

 

[Steel Badger]

Interesting point re the RHR of Canada

Since that awful moment in 1970 when the RHRofC was reduced to nil str (With the exception of the Rsv Bn); the Toronto Maple Leafs have failed to win the Stanley Cup.


Just something else we have to hate Trudeau and Hellyer for! >

 

[a_majoor]

The kilt was banned in late 1939 as unsuitable for modern war; small quantities were taken to England (1/3 of Canada's infantry battalions in the fighting divisions in WW II were Highland or Scottish) for wear on leave or parades.

Highlanders wore kilts to battle until the Boer war, when Boer sharpshooters decided the coulourful kilts made excellent aim points. Either during the second Boer War or after, it became common for Highlanders to wear a leather "apron" over the kilt, both to provide a sort of camofllage function, and protect the fabric of the kilt when crawling around on the ground. (lying prone was not possible or practical as a fighting position until the advent of breech loading rifles).

While Kilts may no longer be considered suitable for modern war, Bagpipes still seem to make an appearence from time to time, during pre-training for ROTO 13 my platoon deployed a piper while acting as enemy force with salubrious effects on our stunned counterparts (getting piped in the pre dawn hours while in a defensive position would be rather unnerving....)

 

[Michael Dorosh]

The kilt was banned in late 1939 as unsuitable for modern war; small quantities were taken to England (1/3 of Canada's infantry battalions in the fighting divisions in WW II were Highland or Scottish) for wear on leave or parades.

Highlanders wore kilts to battle until the Boer war, when Boer sharpshooters decided the coulourful kilts made excellent aim points. Either during the second Boer War or after, it became common for Highlanders to wear a leather "apron" over the kilt, both to provide a sort of camofllage function, and protect the fabric of the kilt when crawling around on the ground. (lying prone was not possible or practical as a fighting position until the advent of breech loading rifles).

While Kilts may no longer be considered suitable for modern war, Bagpipes still seem to make an appearence from time to time, during pre-training for ROTO 13 my platoon deployed a piper while acting as enemy force with salubrious effects on our stunned counterparts (getting piped in the pre dawn hours while in a defensive position would be rather unnerving....)

And an exercise in Gagetown has what to do with modern war, exactly...

Actually, the US Marines fielded a piper in Iraq; the military.com messageboard had a whole thread devoted to buying him a kilt.  I do believe the major wire services carried a story about him.  I doubt very much he was foolish enough to play into action.

 

[Steel Badger]

My Company Piper was on hand during EX SG 04. He played the COY in on the Coy Raid and on the blocking range. Apparently some Golf Callsign members of the landed gentry were quite offended and asking what relevance pipes had on a modern battlefield.

1. Morale of the troops
2. Morlae of the troops, and;
3. Irritating those who pitch fits over such minor issues rather than why the COY did not possess the requisite number of SF kits, radios, 84's etc; not to mention adequate green fleet tpt.
4. Frightening the US Engineers attached to the Coy.

I would like to ask those gents what relevance they have carrying 81mm vice field guns?

 

[the 48th regulator]

In our Sgt's mess we still have a Black Watch veterans association hold meetings and a dinner.   Some show up to our parade on remembrance day.

And as an adder a very good friend and Piper from my regiment, actually went down south to teach the marines how to properly play the pipes.   pipertoad can attest to that (remember when F.C went down) I think you were down there too right?

anhoo sorry to deviate from the topic, a shame what is happening too to the regiments on the other side of the pond.

Dileas

tess

 

[bossi]

And an exercise in Gagetown has what to do with modern war, exactly...

Actually, the US Marines fielded a piper in Iraq; the military.com messageboard had a whole thread devoted to buying him a kilt.   I do believe the major wire services carried a story about him.   I doubt very much he was foolish enough to play into action.

The Desert Rats also fielded a piper in Iraq - I've got a photo somewhere ...

 

[pbi]

Here is another theory I have read concerning the origin of the designation "Black Watch". It comes (IIRC) from a small book I have (somewhere...) titled " Regiments at Waterloo " which I believe was published (Almarks?) in the early 1970's.

This version offers the following genesis.

The Highlands were known for various illiicit activities, including extortion or illegal taxation. One form which this extortion took was in demanding quantities of coarse meal, known as "black meal". The explanation further suggests this as the origin of the term "black mail" as a form of extortion. At any rate, the RHR was employed as a "Watch" to combat this illicit practice, thus winning the name "Black Watch".

I have no idea of the accuracy of this theory. Comments? Cheers.

 

[Michael Dorosh]

Am Freiceadan Dubh baby....

 

[Steel Badger]

Black Watch......is actually a reference to the dark sett of the tartan........

As the regiment was raised to pilice the highlands... it was given a darker tartan to aid in concealment..(tho how about those red coats...)
Like being given the hunting sett of a family tartan.....

 

[Kirkhill]

The story I have heard most often is of the lads in the Dark Tartan being put on Watch over the Highlands, specifically the spaces between the roads that General Wade built to allow his slow, lethargic, cumbersome and ENGLISH flatfoot heavy infantry to get from point A to B.

As to the issue of Black Mail.  Mail originally meant any tax, often as in a toll for using a bridge, ford or road to speed your travel.  Some of my less civically inclined brethren dispensed with the need for the improvements and transportation and just issued a charge for safe passage.  Often the threat was from fellow members of the clan.  Brother Donal on accepting your donation would do his best to convince brother Hamish not to help himself to your cartload of wool heading to Germany.

Some of these Mails were approved by higher authority, not necessarily central, but had the force of law behind them.  Others were more entrepreneurial - and just as some entrepreneurs create Black Markets, others created Black Mails.

And on the subject of pipers at war.

When the Brit Commandos raided Narvik in Norway in 1940, their 2ic Maj Mad Jack Churchill played them ashore.  There was apparently a piper playing with Lord Lovatt's men when he assaulted either Dieppe or at Sword.  I have picture of a piper leading a platoon through Bocage country in Normandy, unit unidentified, no kilt worn.  And most recently, when the Black Watch deployed to back up the Fallujah assault a few of the Watch were killed and the base was under mortar and rocket fire.  To buck up spirits after a memorial service the CO requested a piper to play.  The Pipe Major took the job himself and parade the length and back of a bridge in plane sight of the enemy.  I wouldn't doubt but what there were a few threeps and screeks during his recital.

There is never a wrong time for the pipes.

 

[Steel Badger]

Ah weel, takin money from ra sassenach the noo......

Ye cannae call it ra crime, its ra national sport laddie!

 

[Michael Dorosh]

Kirkhill - at Sword Beach, Bill Millin played Lord Lovat ashore; the scene was immortailized in the film The Longest Day, but it really happened - see the book by the same name by Cornelius Ryan!

 

[Veterans son]

I had a grandfather who was part of The Black Watch, He got shot a Vimy and gased at Ypres. In total I think the regiment holds 43 Battle Honours.

My grandfather served with the Black Watch in WW1 also(He was in 13th Battalion, CEF).