Canada's First Nations - CF help, protests, solutions, etc. (merged)

[mariomike]

Sure 

The quote you posted in Reply #1217 on: Today at 17:00:03

 

[Jarnhamar]

The quote you posted in Reply #1217 on: Today at 17:00:03

The quote is from the link you posted. 2nd Twitter post on the page, from the Kingstonist.

 

[mariomike]

The quote is from the link you posted. 2nd Twitter post on the page, from the Kingstonist.

Thank-you. I was quoting Kingston Police.

Did not realise you were quoting the Kingstonist.
https://twitter.com/kingstonist

 

[The Bread Guy]

... A TC-111 type train car can transport 131,000L of product.  Chlorine in it's liquid state (how it's transported) converts to a gaseous state when it's exposed to air. 1 cup of liquid chlorine coverts to about 300 square feet of gas ...

As the situation was/is unfolding, here's an update on what was in the cars in question ...

... An update from CN says the product was adipic acid, “a solid industrial product commonly used in food and to make everyday household items such as nylon.” Only a minimal amount of the substance spilled. It was contained in a small area on CN property and did not contaminate any water supply, according to CN ...

As of this post, still no links to any protests.

Meanwhile, in Quebec ...

Prime Minister Justin Trudeau is ruling out military intervention when it comes to dismantling rail blockades as the union president for Quebec provincial police asks for assistance.

“Our focus is very much on resolving this peacefully for the long term,” Trudeau told reporters in Saint-Jérôme, Que., on Wednesday. “But, as I’ve said many times, I do not think it is ever appropriate to send in the military against Canadian citizens.”

His remarks come on the heels of a letter from Pierre Veilleux, the president of the union representing 5,400 Sûreté du Québec police officers, to Quebec Premier François Legault ...

 

[The Bread Guy]

And survey says ....

A new poll suggests Canadians weren’t happy with Justin Trudeau’s handling of the natural-gas pipeline dispute in British Columbia that led to nationwide rail and road blockades mounted in solidarity with Indigenous leaders who oppose the project.

According to the Leger Marketing survey, 61 per cent of respondents said they were dissatisfied with the way the prime minister has handled the  blockade file.

The numbers also suggest most Canadians blame the federal government for the crisis that erupted after supporters of Wet’suwet’en hereditary chiefs were arrested in B.C. while trying to block the Coastal GasLink pipeline project in early February — even though the project was approved by the province ...

More @ link, here @ the Leger poll page and in attached excerpt from the Leger results on the blockade/protest issue and on who's people feel is responsible - most of the rest of the survey deals with Canada's record on Indigenous issues, including how people feel on whether "Indigenous peoples should have a veto
the right to say no when it comes to large infrastructure projects that need to be built on land, they claim to be their own."  Spoiler alert: almost evenly split yes and no, with 17% don't know/don't answer.

 

[Good2Golf]

As the situation was/is unfolding, here's an update on what was in the cars in question ...As of this post, still no links to any protests.

Meanwhile, in Quebec ...

The PM needs to brush up on his Constitutional Law and National Defence Act.  He can’t stop a province’s Attorney General from requesting the Canadian Armed Forces to provide Aid to the Civil Power.  He could of course tell the MND to order the CDS to refuse the request. Then the comparisons will start that at least his Old Man had a pair of balls on him.  It seems that Junior keeps his in his wife’s purse.

:2c:
G2G

 

[Weinie]

The PM needs to brush up on his Constitutional Law and National Defence Act.  He can’t stop a province’s Attorney General from requesting the Canadian Armed Forces to provide Aid to the Civil Power. He could of course tell the MND to order the CDS to refuse the request. Then the comparisons will start that at least his Old Man had a pair of balls on him.  It seems that Junior keeps his in his wife’s purse.

:2c:
G2G

Though this might have been superseded, don't believe that the MND has the authority to "order" the CDS to do anything. Although the link below is dated (and marked Secret, released through ATI), I haven't seen any changes to the NDA or Act ITO authorities of MND

https://www.canada.ca/content/dam/dnd-mdn/migration/assets/FORCES_Internet/docs/en/transition-books.pdf

Not trying to pick a fight here GTG. We all know how Ottawa can (and often) works.

 

[Good2Golf]

Weinie, no slight taken, my friend. It’s both in §18 of the NDA:

Appointment, rank and duties of Chief of Defence Staff

18 (1) The Governor in Council may appoint an officer to be the Chief of the Defence Staff, who shall hold such rank as the Governor in Council may prescribe and who shall, subject to the regulations and under the direction of the Minister, be charged with the control and administration of the Canadian Forces.

Marginal note:Responsibility and channels of communication

(2) Unless the Governor in Council otherwise directs, all orders and instructions to the Canadian Forces that are required to give effect to the decisions and to carry out the directions of the Government of Canada or the Minister shall be issued by or through the Chief of the Defence Staff.

R.S., c. N-4, s. 18

And specifically for ACP, the fourth bullet on page 4 of the ATI’d ref (nice one, BTW ).  MND can direct.

I would not be at all surprised if Quebec asked the CDS for ACP, that there’d be some flopping. Either Sajjan would direct Vance to stand down on the request while the PM ’keeps the dialogue going’, or Vance would take one for Team Red and would find a way for the Minister to not even have to tell him (Vance) to refuse the request.



Regards
G2G

 

[Haggis]

My union asks for unreasonable stuff all the time.

In that the request for ALEA/ACP is to be based on circumstances where the situation is clearly beyond the ability of law enforcement (and not their union) to address, I wonder if the Commander(s) of the SQ are ready to admit defeat?

Secondly, QR&O 23.08(c) gives the CDS the leeway to reject the request oif he deems is to not be valid.  No MND direction required.

 

[The Bread Guy]

The PM needs to brush up on his Constitutional Law and National Defence Act.  He can’t stop a province’s Attorney General from requesting the Canadian Armed Forces to provide Aid to the Civil Power.

IF he was quoted correctly, he said it's "inappropriate", not that he couldn't.

He could of course tell the MND to order the CDS to refuse the request. Then the comparisons will start that at least his Old Man had a pair of balls on him.

1000 times  :nod:

 

[Good2Golf]

My union asks for unreasonable stuff all the time.

In that the request for ALEA/ACP is to be based on circumstances where the situation is clearly beyond the ability of law enforcement (and not their union) to address, I wonder if the Commander(s) of the SQ are ready to admit defeat?

Secondly, QR&O 23.08(c) gives the CDS the leeway to reject the request oif he deems is to not be valid.  No MND direction required.

Good point for #1...seems “they’re not there yet...”

#2 is how it would likely go down, and there will be ‘no influence’ from PM/MND...

Regards
G2G

 

[captloadie]

Just so it is clear, the CDS does not get asked directly for support. Nor can he offer support directly. Requests come in from provinces normally get filtered through to the Minister of Public safety, who sends a Request for Assistance to the MND. The MND will then make a decision to authorize the assistance and task the CDS to provide said assistance. There is usually a lot of back and forth between the MPS, MND, and the provinces (with advice from the CDS) to ensure the scope of the assistance is precise. There are often things that are asked for that are not provided because they were not authorized by the MND.

 

[The Bread Guy]

Even some traditionally left o' centre media are underwhelmed by the PM ...

Is the curtain coming down on the Justin Trudeau era in Canadian politics?

When the next election rolls around, both the Conservative and Green parties will have new leaders. Even NDP Leader Jagmeet Singh is newish.

No one should be surprised if the Liberal party follows suit. The case for dumping Justin Trudeau before the Liberals face the electorate again gets stronger by the day.

The federal government’ handling of the Wet’suwet’en protest against TC Energy Corp.’s Coastal GasLink project has been a month and more of Amateur Hour come to politics.

First, the prime minister ignored the crisis in favour of a foreign trip to promote a temporary seat for Canada on the UN Security Council. That made him look completely off rhythm.

When he finally did cut his travels short and returned to Canada, Trudeau claimed that protesters in violation of court injunctions were the problem of the B.C. government because it was responsible for enforcement and policing.

As Singh tweeted at the time, “pretending the federal government has no role is a failure of leadership.”

Although Trudeau advised patience in dealing with the Wet’suwet’en protests, a course far wiser than Conservative Leader Andrew Scheer’s shrill demand for frontier justice, the PM backed away from his own stand on Feb. 21, declaring that the blockades must come down.

No one on the Indigenous side listened, and the police were called in. That made the PM look hypocritical. Again, Singh skewered Trudeau, tweeting that it was heartbreaking to see “land defenders and Indigenous matriarchs dragged off their land.”

And when new blockades sprung up in places like Saskatoon and L’Isle Verte, as others were taken down in Ontario and Quebec, Trudeau simply exuded weakness.

The Wet’suwet’en and the Mohawk Warriors showed more resolve than the leader of the country, as they continued to defy the law — or from their perspective, to follow a higher one.

Irresponsible, hypocritical and weak are not the stuff of which leaders are made.

Trudeau has made himself chief juggler in a circus of incompetence. Already the damage to the Liberal government has been great ...

 

[daftandbarmy]

First Nation wants anti-pipeline group to apologize for protest outside premier’s home

The Beecher Bay band says an anti-pipeline group breached protocol in not asking permission to enter the band’s territory when it protested outside the premier’s home, and it wants an apology.

Early on Feb. 18, members of Extinction Rebellion, claiming solidarity with the Wet’suwet’en hereditary chiefs who oppose the Coastal GasLink pipeline in northern B.C., planned to blockade Premier John Horgan’s driveway to prevent him from getting to the B.C. legislature for delivery of the budget.

https://www.timescolonist.com/news/local/first-nation-wants-anti-pipeline-group-to-apologize-for-protest-outside-premier-s-home-1.24090716

 

[Colin Parkinson]

As much as I enjoy the protesters being hoisted on their petard, I am not going to support having to "request permission from anyone" to protest, a dangerous path that is.

 

[Haggis]

Even some traditionally left o' centre media are underwhelmed by the PM ...

Trudeau survived SNC, JWR, blackface, India and Norman and still won the last election.  He'll survive this and look decisive in the end.  Remember, today's Liberal party is more of a personality cult that a political organization.  They will tank the next election without Trudeau.

 

[The Bread Guy]

Trudeau survived SNC, JWR, blackface, India and Norman and still won the last election.  He'll survive this and look decisive in the end.  Remember, today's Liberal party is more of a personality cult that a political organization.  They will tank the next election without Trudeau.

While I don't think the incumbent is for the axe before the next election, right this second, I think that bit in yellow may still depend on who's running on the other teams (mostly Team Blue), even with JT.

 

[Brad Sallows]

>Remember, today's Liberal party is more of a personality cult that a political organization.

That might seem true, but only for now.  The LPC has a long history of being a party that coalesces around whatever it takes to win and retain power.

 

[Good2Golf]

Just so it is clear, the CDS does not get asked directly for support. Nor can he offer support directly. Requests come in from provinces normally get filtered through to the Minister of Public safety, who sends a Request for Assistance to the MND. The MND will then make a decision to authorize the assistance and task the CDS to provide said assistance. There is usually a lot of back and forth between the MPS, MND, and the provinces (with advice from the CDS) to ensure the scope of the assistance is precise. There are often things that are asked for that are not provided because they were not authorized by the MND.

The NDA (specifically Sect. 277) and QR&O (23.04) disagree with you.

NDA §277. Where a riot or disturbance occurs or is considered as likely to occur, the attorney general of the province in which the place where the riot or disturbance occurs or is considered as likely to occur is situated, on the initiative of the attorney general or on the receipt of notification from a judge of a superior, county or district court having jurisdiction in the place that the services of the Canadian Forces are required in aid of the civil power, may, by requisition in writing addressed to the Chief of the Defence Staff, require the Canadian Forces, or such part thereof as the Chief of the Defence Staff or such officer as the Chief of the Defence Staff may designate considers necessary, to be called out on service in aid of the civil power.

Curious as to what legislation counters this Direct request from AG to CDS?

Regards
G2G

 

[Haggis]

Before a request for ALEA/ACP gets to this level, it must be shown that the substantial resources of the SQ and the RCMP have been deemed insufficient to deal with the situation and the only remaining recourse is to deploy those elements of the CAF which the CDS deems appropriate, and authorized by the minister.  In this case, railroads fall under the category of critical infrastructure so the RCMP would have the jurisdiction to assist the SQ when asked, long before the CAF would get involved.

We are still a long, long way from a Trudeau Sr. style "just watch me" moment from this PM.