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Canadian Army Reservist on Shooting Spree - in uniform

KevinB said:
Dennis Lortie (pronounce Denny   ::) ) a Cpl who worked at the Carp Bunket took a 9mm C1 SMG (Sterling) and a 9mm Inglis (Browning Hi-Power) or two to the Quebec legislature for some tgt practise however he screwed up showed up at lunch and missed his "audience"   The Sgt@Arms talked him down and he surrendered peacefully.

Lortie still managed to kill a few people (3 I think) and wounded several more - legislature staff, the pols were all at lunch. IIRC René Jalbert, the Sgt-at-Arms got the Cross of Valour for talking Lortie down. The video of the event is pretty messed up. Lortie busts caps with the SMG in all directions, and pitches his false teeth(?!).

Acorn
 
Assuming this clown goes to Edmonton at all, he will only serve two years less a day, then be turned over to some nice "Club Fed" for the remainder of his sentence. I suppose we will be hearing some sob story about his being stressed out, or mentally ill at the time (odd how you never show symptoms before, and the illness never seems to recur after the event. The wonders of modern medicine).
 
a_majoor said:
(odd how you never show symptoms before, and the illness never seems to recur after the event. The wonders of modern medicine).

I'm not defending this guy, just replying to your comment (above).
Sometimes symptoms are ignored, disbelieved, or overlooked.

A few years ago a friend died of liver failure - turned out he was an alcoholic and had been for years, drinking on his way to work, going for a "few" beers at lunch, and so on.  The doctors explained that his huge "beer gut" was actually his liver - he looked pregnant, it was so freakin' big.
However, as mental/medical health professionals would explain, people with "problems" try to compensate in different ways - this guy threw himself into volunterism with St John's Ambulance and coaching, others lead Boy Scouts, cadets, etc. - thus, we're always "so surprised" when they implode.

In Afghanistan we spotted somebody who was incredibly absent-minded, distracted, forgetful, irritable to the point of being ridiculous.  He's not doing very well now even though he's back home (and, no - I'm not talking in the third person about myself, thanks anyway).

As for after the event, well ... sometimes they respond to treatment (which they lacked beforehand).

It's important not to be too judgemental, scornful or harsh lest you drive people "underground" ... when they need help the most.
Treat others the way you'd want to be treated if you were in their shoes
(i.e. "There but for the grace of ... whatever ... go I.")

Far from being a handicap to command, compassion is the measure of it.
For unless one values the lives of his soldiers and is tormented by their ordeals, he is unfit to command.
General Omar Bradley
 
Well I guess its not so bad because there was no harm done, but doesnt this sort of put a bad impression on the Candian Forces. And also if this goes further into a trial, that enrolment standards be altered to ensure guys like him dont act that way?
 
I was MacEachern's OC in Croatia (C/1PP) on OP HARMONY Roto 04 in 1994.. To say the least, I found some his tales about events he "witnessed" to be somewhat different than my recollection of things. Let's leave it at that. Cheers.
 
Michael Dorosh said:
So which is it?
Well Mike I guess just like any other criminal, hes commited an offence, like running from the police, firing of shots, that deserves some sort of punishment not to mention he decided to wear his uniform which is harmfull for the CF. So yes he does not just deserve to be ejected from the military but also be fined and or jailed. And if he be put in rehab if neccesary.
 
Could he possibly see Jail time?Maybe not for the shooting,but for the incident that happened on CFB Bagotville?Would'nt he fall under the NDA?
 
Oh defininatly!But a crime on a military installation regaurdless if the accused is a military member or not can have far more severe punishments than on civy street,expecially if the accused is a member.They could send him to the nut house on civy street for all the shooting and such,but because he broke a law while on a military establishment(evading arrest,or even the "catch-all")he still could face time in the crowbar hotel.
A question that has just come to me :What take legal precedence,the NDA or the civy laws?
 
Just venturing a guess, but I think that the NDA takes precidence, but civy charges no not reflect military rulings (ie. if a member is released in military court, civy charges can still be laid.)
 
It would work(Im sure someone will correct me if Im wrong) indictable offenses first. As they are "more serious". NDA offences are all summary conviction are they not?
 
gun plumber said:
A question that has just come to me :What take legal precedence,the NDA or the civy laws?

It's interesting:  Crimes like murder, etc. are tried in civvie court - unless the offence happened outside of Canada in certain circumstances, then it's a court martial.
The underlying concept is to avoid having a military justice system that would unfairly/unjustly favour or protect soldiers.

If sentenced to a long vacation, the first two years (less a day?) are spent in Edmonton, then the rest in a civvie penitentiary - this time, sort of the reverse - to let the Army get in its' licks first ... "pour encourager les autres ..." so to speak.

Having said all of the above, even after Canada abolished the death penalty for murder, it still existed under QR&O's for a while (for certain offences in the face of the enemy) but then it was brought into line with CCC.

Bottom line: CCC normally takes precedence over NDA, but then there are peculiar exceptions when NDA comes first (i.e. when there's no equivalent in CCC).
 
Bossi:

Do you have any idea off hand when the death penalty was removed from the QR&Os?  I seem to recall it was quite recent (late 80s or early 90s)
 
An intersting line of thought for reservists to consider in light of this will be disarmament of the reserves.

I'm serious, not in that I'd think it'd be a good idea, but let's all remember that this is the government that brought you a billion dollar gun registry because somebody in Quebec shot up a school.

We also have recently seen a similar thing happen here in BC, where all of the reserve police officers were disarmed for far less.  Still expected to go on patrol, in uniform, with regular force members, but completely unarmed.  Not surprisingly, nearly the entire reserve force quit and the new recruits are, um, nice guys.

I wouldn't be even slightly surprised if some Liberal soon starts calling for the reserves to be limited to foot drill, wearing uniforms, SHARP training and all of "thier" weapons/ammo/equipment stored with the closest regular force unit.  It would dovetail nicely with cutting a portion of the defence budget(Always a favorite of the Canadian government), as a reservist with just a uniform costs little.  No vehicles because they're a "potential danger to the public", no exercises outside of the sandtable variety, just a hall where guys dressed in green can meet once a week, practice marching and looking at pictures of military kit.  Of course, they'd also handle marching in Rememberance Day parades and such.

It wouldn't shock me in the least.
 
*gasp* shhh...don't give them any ideas.

be careful what you wish for, it might just come true  >:D
 
Boydfish said:
An intersting line of thought for reservists to consider in light of this will be disarmament of the reserves.

I'm serious, not in that I'd think it'd be a good idea, but let's all remember that this is the government that brought you a billion dollar gun registry because somebody in Quebec shot up a school.

We also have recently seen a similar thing happen here in BC, where all of the reserve police officers were disarmed for far less.   Still expected to go on patrol, in uniform, with regular force members, but completely unarmed.   Not surprisingly, nearly the entire reserve force quit and the new recruits are, um, nice guys.

I wouldn't be even slightly surprised if some Liberal soon starts calling for the reserves to be limited to foot drill, wearing uniforms, SHARP training and all of "thier" weapons/ammo/equipment stored with the closest regular force unit.   It would dovetail nicely with cutting a portion of the defence budget(Always a favorite of the Canadian government), as a reservist with just a uniform costs little.   No vehicles because they're a "potential danger to the public", no exercises outside of the sandtable variety, just a hall where guys dressed in green can meet once a week, practice marching and looking at pictures of military kit.   Of course, they'd also handle marching in Rememberance Day parades and such.

It wouldn't shock me in the least.

Its very sad that I'm not shocked by that suggestion....at least he wasnt using a service weapon...
 
Boydfish said:
An intersting line of thought for reservists to consider in light of this will be disarmament of the reserves.

As others have said, it's sad that this doesn't shock me.
However, as Boydfish said, they're so out of touch with reality that they've spent over a billion dollars on a useless gun registry (so far).
Thus, it won't surprise me either when they announce special streamlined recruiting processes for Liberal party members and other "selected" groups ...
It's all about getting re-elected, not what's best for Canada.
 
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