Canadian Combat Action Badge - Now A Dead Idea (Merged Threads)

[armyvern]

I thought there was a CANFORGEN which stated that this was dead idea  ???

Yes, yes there was - in May. It's cancellation was also passed down via O Gps last fall (although some troops at the bottom level obviously never had it passed down in their O Gps: That's why some troops were apparently "unaware of it's cancellation" & ergo the message being cut in May).

Now, the media is simply digging up the story again because they have realized that the CAB had recd Royal assent, but was cancelled anyway.

Gee: Gen Hillier orders it to be implemented, so they work on it even though the dissention amongst the troops was obvious from the get-go as was the "us vs them" attitude it was creating. "They" follow orders. General Hillier retires ...

Don't believe it was causing dissention? Just witness the continued "I'm am holier than though fobbite vs KAFer" bullshit and dissention occuring (even trade-internally amongst zero-trades). "There but for the grace of God go I into a "Fobbite" posn number vs a "KAF" posn" ... but being slotted into one posn vs another by some third party somehow "proves" a greater "worthiness/ability" to some.

 

[George Wallace]

Really!  Why does someone who has never served a day in their life need to have a say in this?  I really don't care what the Scouting Movement, any of the Emergency Services, the US Military, the Russian Military, or whatever organization, create as criteria for awards.  It is what our organization, the CF determines.

I have no say in the awarding of Exercise Medals or Patches in the Russian Army.  I have no say in the awarding of the Combat Infantry Badge in the US Army.  I have no say in awarding a Sewing Badge to a Boy Scout.  I don't belong to any of those organizations.  Why should some politico or newspaper blogger have a say in what the CF awards?

 

[PhilB]

I understand why this was scrapped, it makes sense to a certain degree. I understand that there is dissent, but I think it is a little bit of a stretch to intimate that many troops were against this. A lot of troops I have talked to, to be totally frank many of whom would have received the badge, are totally for it.  I agree however that it would cause un-necessary rifts amongst trades.

I would like to see a combat infantry badge. A badge solely for the infantry corp that distinguishes those that have been in combat vice those that have not. It could be very simple, combat means people shooting at you, and you shooting back. You either meet this criteria or you dont. In my opinion, for many trades, particularly purple trades, being "in combat" has very little bearing on their capability to do their job to a very high level of competence. That being said, I think, and others can feel free to disagree, that this cannot be said for the infantry. While I understand that troops dont have a say in what position they fill, and whether or not the enemy decides to engage them, having been engaged in combat does give an infanteer a level of experience that cannot be achieved through any amount of training. I think that an infantry only badge (it could be awared as a ceremonial/"thank you" thing to those trades supporting us comms, medics etc) would be good for the infantry corp. If other corps want to develop their own badges than they can feel free but I think it would be a good distinction/pat on the back for many infanteers.

Obviously just my two cents.

 

[1feral1]

Phil, the Australian ICB/ACB is not that complicated, and instead of trying to mirror the US system of a red tape nightmare for this type of award, perhaps, the Canadian Forces should have looked to the Australian Army/ADF instead of the US Army.

As for the silly rifts between Corps etc. I have not seen any such childlike behaviour here, and I have seen may who have their campaign medals without the ICB/ACB, and many with. I will say the prototype Canadian design was absolutely hidious, but thats just my opinion.

That being said our military cultures yet parallel, are entirely diffferent.

Cheers,

Wes

 

[George Wallace]

PhilB

Perhaps your remember the CF coming up with SHARP training for everyone?  Later they came up with Differential Training.  Remember: "Are you and "X" or a "Y"?"  It should have been training, not to point out our differences, but how we are all the same, but that is a totally different topic. 

We have enough "Us vs Them" as is in the CF.  This badge just adds another "Us vs Them" problem to the basket.

 

[Franko]

PhilB

Perhaps your remember the CF coming up with SHARP training for everyone?  Later they came up with Differential Training.  Remember: "Are you and "X" or a "Y"?"  It should have been training, not to point out our differences, but how we are all the same, but that is a totally different topic. 

We have enough "Us vs Them" as in in the CF.  This badge just adds another "Us vs Them" problem to the basket.

Remember the Warrior Badge?      :

Regards

 

[PMedMoe]

Remember the Warrior Badge?      :

And remember the standards changing so "certain people" could get a gold one? 

 

[Fishbone Jones]

And remember the standards changing so "certain people" could get a gold one? 

........and how, when it was only an LFCA thing, I was ridiculed and ordered to remove it from my uniform, when I went down east to the 'Centre of Excellence' for course. :

 

[mariomike]

This is a picture of the Warrior Badge, Canada, for those of us ( myself ) who are unfamiliar with it.
CANADA ARMED FORCES INFANTRY WARRIOR BADGE BRONZE ( as advertised on e-Bay ).

 

[Fishbone Jones]

It's labelled wrong Mike. Every trade wore the same thing. It wasn't exclusive to the Infantry. Everyone just called it 'officially' the Warrior Badge. It came in gold, silver and bronze, depending on your actual test accuem, ............or who was signing your sheet.

 

[PhilB]

Im not talking about a warrior badge, nor am I talking about a badge that is open to other trades, only within the infantry. Our uniforms already set trades apart (i.e. the sash) I dont think an infantry specific badge that recognizes combat experience will increase animosity between trades. It will seperate people within the trade, but not amongst everyone else. If the badge is only available to the infantry, as it would be an infantry specific badge, then why would there be an issue with other trades not having it? If other trades want a badge they can create one.

As a side note I really hate how in the CF the seems to be a disinclination to recognize anyone for fear of creating difference and "hurt feelings" amongst those that arent recognized. It is ridiculous in my opinion and panders to the lowest common denominator.

 

[PMedMoe]

Are the infantry the only trade exposed to combat?

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Are the infantry the only trade exposed to combat?

.....and we're right back where we started with this discussion. Deja vu all over again.

 

[George Wallace]

And back to vanity, egos, and discrimination within the Infantry Branch.

 

[PMedMoe]

.....and we're right back where we started with this discussion. Deja vu all over again.

And back to vanity, egos, and discrimination within the Infantry Branch.

My apologies, but I just don't see how (or why) this badge could/should/would be created for Infantry only.

 

[MikeL]

My apologies, but I just don't see how (or why) this badge could/should/would be created for Infantry only.

I believe Phill is mostly talking about a Combat Infantry Badge because he is an Infantryman. What he is saying is just have a Combat Infantry Badge specific to 031s and the remainder of the trades would have Combat Action Badges and Combat Medic Badges like the US Army. And another point I believe he was making that the CF already has badges, etc that show the persons trade from others in trade badges, capbadges, etc. So another badge that shows who's Infantry an who's not wouldn't/shouldn't be an issue.


For those that don't like the idea of the badges that show off what trade we are, etc we could just be like the US Marines. No trade badges(just qual badges, ie jump wings, scuba, etc), no capbadges, no seperate combat badges. Just have the Combat Action Ribbon that everyone(Combat Arms/CS/CSS) gets if they have been in combat.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

If you guys go back to the beginning of the thread and read through it, you'll find this same discussion has already taken place. You're just rehashing what has already been said. Same points, same arguments. Pleas don't reinvent the wheel.

It's also likely part of the dissention the Board was talking about.

 

[aesop081]

This is a picture of the Warrior Badge, Canada, for those of us ( myself ) who are unfamiliar with it.
CANADA ARMED FORCES INFANTRY WARRIOR BADGE BRONZE ( as advertised on e-Bay ).

In the first year of the warrior program, the badge featured the last 2 digits of the year it was awarded, right below the crossed swords.

 

[the 48th regulator]

.....and we're right back where we started with this discussion. Deja vu all over again.

Does that mean I can talk about the Pirate hat Idea I came up with, again?

Sweet.

dileas

tess

 

[vonGarvin]

Does that mean I can talk about the Pirate hat Idea I came up with, again?

Sweet.

dileas

tess

Yes, please do!  *grin*

Now, as an aside, for the LFCA Warrior Badge, as I remember it, there were a series of events, all with objective standards.  There was musketry, physical fitness and soldier skills.  To achieve a gold standard, one needed the "gold" standard in all tests, to achieve a silver standard, one needed a minimum of the "silver" standard in all tests and to achieve bronze, one needed to achieve the minimum standard in all tests.  I also understand that because the test seemed too easy to achieve gold for some unit (or units, not really sure), that (or those) units came up with their own standards and tests.  The "us/them" variation in the warrior badge arose as a result of those varying standards for the similar award. 

To illustrate, suppose that The Hastings and Prince Edward Regiment decided that to achieve Gold, the soldier needed to raise 4 hogs to a combined mass of 400 kg of edible pork products.  Now, Pte Bloggins only achieved 350 kg, so he gets the silver, even though in all other tests he achieved the gold standard.  Pte Snookums, in 4th Battalion, The Royal Canadian Regiment had no hog raising test, but like Pte Bloggins achieved Gold in all other tests.  Both are just as skilled at the universal objective; however, to an ill-informed outsider, he is "not as good" as Snookums.  That is the "us/them" that came from the Warrior Badge Fiasco.