Canadian River Class Destroyer Megathread

[FSTO]

I'm going to beat this drum, and I really hope that we've learned a lesson with the implementation of the National Shipbuilding program. But in 1998 we had a worked up shipyard with workers churning out Frigates at a furious rate. The last ship was leaving and we knew, WE KNEW that our supply ships were nearing end of life, that the Coast Guard and DFO ships were facing rust out and that within 10 years the Trumped Destroyers were going to roll over and sink. And we shut the whole operation down.
We now have the NSP and after rebuilding an industry 4 times (WWII, the 50's, the 80's, and now) over the last 100 years I really hope we've learned a lesson and that do the following:
1 - The design life of a warship is 25 years - stick to it;
2 - The GoC is planning for the current program's replacements, and thinking about what will replace them as well;
3 - The shipyard workers are a strategic resource and we must do what is required to keep them employed; and
4 - Send Donald Trump a fruit basket for kicking this nation in the crotch to shake it from its comfort zone and start to act like a goddamn grown-up.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Yes, we've all been reading about it now.

Realistically if they chose a shipyard (can't see how it could be either Seaspan or Irving) by say Aug of 2028, after wrapping up the current stage by end of Dec of 2026. If first steel is cut by Nov of 2029, the first boat could be commissioned and accepted by the RCN by what, 2035? Maybe the 2nd boat by 2036?

Does that help us in staving off what the RN is now experiencing?

Are those 'thrown against the wall' dates even feasible?

Which shipyard or combination of shipyards could realistically meet the above timelines?

Irving and/or Seaspan can do the design work and help with the setup as well. There is starting to be pushback on BC Ferries getting vessels from overseas as well. Perhaps a spinoff of the NSS is a civilian version building ferries and other vessels, with import taxes to make them competitive with foreign built vessels?

 

[Retired AF Guy]

Which shipyard or combination of shipyards could realistically meet the above timelines?

South Korea?

 

[Underway]

Yes. It is called the Canadian Defence Corvette. But they have to kick start it right now.

Hopefully RFI out by Xmas.

 

[FJAG]

Question: Can the River-class navigate the St Lawrence Seaway? The specs look a bit tight to me.

 

[Oldgateboatdriver]

They can. But for purposes other than PR, why would they?

 

[FJAG]

They can. But for purposes other than PR, why would they?

Rush-Bagot aside, I was contemplating having hybrid CDCs go on the Great Lakes and St Lawrence for NavRes training. That made me think about the RCDs - which I do not consider a NavRes friendly ship to start with. I looked at the Seaway specs and the beam and particulalry the draft looked a bit too close.

 

[Underway]

Rush-Bagot aside, I was contemplating having hybrid CDCs go on the Great Lakes and St Lawrence for NavRes training. That made me think about the RCDs - which I do not consider a NavRes friendly ship to start with. I looked at the Seaway specs and the beam and particulalry the draft looked a bit too close.

That's what the FASST-V program is for (Future At Sea Sovereignty and Training Vessel). Basically better Orca class. Longer, better seakeeping, ability to take crew served weapons (50 cal, C6) secure comms etc...

Also expecting an RFI this year. There is a good chance that it will be released ahead of CDC as I'm unsure as if CDC is on as fast of a clock.

Right now all the main yards are pretty full. Seaspan has at least 12 years of work on the docket, Irving has 15 years of work. Davie no idea but they seem more interested in expanding their international empire. FASST-V will go to a smaller (or multiple) smaller shipyards. Expected to produce 15+ vessels (I've heard as high as 30 and as low as 12).

 

[oldcpu]

They can. But for purposes other than PR, why would they?

Years ago a DDH-280 went up the St.Lawrence Seaway to a drydock in Port Weller Ontario (by St.Catherines).

I wonder if it's big enough for a RCD to fit (if that dry dock is still in operation)? I believe it big enough in terms of length and width (much bigger than RCD), but I am not so sure about depth. Would that dry dock, if operational (or if not operational then restored), be deep enough for an RCD?

All very very hypothetical of course ... and I don't know the status of the Port Weller/St.Catherines dry dock. I read the "historic company" that once ran that dry dock was Port Weller Dry Docks (founded by Charles Ansell in 1946). It was later owned by Upper Lakes Shipping/Upper Lakes Group and operated under names including Seaway Marine & Industrial. After that company’s 2013 bankruptcy, Heddle Shipyards took over operations under a long-term lease; where I believe it is now listed as a facility of Ontario Shipyards. But I don't know if it is operational.

 

[YZT580]

Years ago a DDH-280 went up the St.Lawrence Seaway to a drydock in Port Weller Ontario (by St.Catherines).

I wonder if it's big enough for a RCD to fit (if that dry dock is still in operation)? I believe it big enough in terms of length and width (much bigger than RCD), but I am not so sure about depth. Would that dry dock, if operational (or if not operational then restored), be deep enough for an RCD?

All very very hypothetical of course ... and I don't know the status of the Port Weller/St.Catherines dry dock. I read the "historic company" that once ran that dry dock was Port Weller Dry Docks (founded by Charles Ansell in 1946). It was later owned by Upper Lakes Shipping/Upper Lakes Group and operated under names including Seaway Marine & Industrial. After that company’s 2013 bankruptcy, Heddle Shipyards took over operations under a long-term lease; where I believe it is now listed as a facility of Ontario Shipyards. But I don't know if it is operational.

It is fully operational. The Terry Fox CCG is sitting there now on an extended refit/rebuild. From what I gather there is a very large hole in the side at the moment while they wait for the delivery of new engines, it has been completely de-rusted (is that a word?) and painted and they are replacing all the windows so it is a very major piece of work. As for the size, if the ship can operate in the Seaway the graving dock can accept it.

 

[FJAG]

Years ago a DDH-280 went up the St.Lawrence Seaway to a drydock in Port Weller Ontario (by St.Catherines).

I wonder if it's big enough for a RCD to fit (if that dry dock is still in operation)? I believe it big enough in terms of length and width (much bigger than RCD), but I am not so sure about depth. Would that dry dock, if operational (or if not operational then restored), be deep enough for an RCD?

Per Wikipedia, the largest ship ever built there was the Algoma Progress which had a length of 225m, beam of 22.9m and draft of 14.2m. That ought to make it capable of taking an RCD but certainly take a CDC. - The TKMS Meko A-100 seems to come in at around US$300-500 million and is touted as a possible CDC contender. A nice, long term project for a southern Ontario yard. Time for some government investment.

 

[YZT580]

Per Wikipedia, the largest ship ever built there was the Algoma Progress which had a length of 225m, beam of 22.9m and draft of 14.2m. That ought to make it capable of taking an RCD but certainly take a CDC. - The TKMS Meko A-100 seems to come in at around US$300-500 million and is touted as a possible CDC contender. A nice, long term project for a southern Ontario yard. Time for some government investment.

They also have another graving dock in Thunder Bay alongside of a full metal fabrication shop so they are reasonably well set except they would have to do a lot of recruiting and training to get the manpower/skills to return to ship building as opposed to repairs.