Canadian River Class Destroyer Megathread

[Czech_pivo]

We might be a little hard on Davie.

Agreement signed with Irving in 2011, first ship delivered by Irving in 2020: 9 years. Agreement signed with Seaspan in 2012, first delivery in 2017: 5 years (a simpler ship).

Agreement signed with Davie in 2023, and the first ship on their list is the largest non-nuclear icebreaker in the world, and we are only three years into it. Can we point at where the other two yards were at in the third year after signing their agreement?

Hmmm, we can’t go back to Asterisx?

 

[YZT580]

We might be a little hard on Davie.

Agreement signed with Irving in 2011, first ship delivered by Irving in 2020: 9 years. Agreement signed with Seaspan in 2012, first delivery in 2017: 5 years (a simpler ship).

Agreement signed with Davie in 2023, and the first ship on their list is the largest non-nuclear icebreaker in the world, and we are only three years into it. Can we point at where the other two yards were at in the third year after signing their agreement?

not entirely a fair comparison. Their first ship design had already been accepted apart from whatever tweeks they have put into it and it is indeed under construction: in Helsinki. The completed hull will be dragged across the Atlantic for those finishing touches.

 

[Oldgateboatdriver]

Hmmm, we can’t go back to Asterisx?

No, because Asterix was a one off self created product that nobody else thought to offer at the time, but not part of the NSS at all and required no "shipyard upgrade to NSS levels".

 

[Nvlgzr]

Hmmm, we can’t go back to Asterisx?

No. The government had decided that 2 companies in NSS were adequate at the time. As we all know; Asterix happened because the navy was in a hard place with the loss of Protectuer and Preserver and the failure of the government to provide replacement a decade earlier. If it wasn’t for Vice Admiral Norman , Asterix wouldn’t have happened and almost didn’t happen because of spineless PM Sox. Here we are 12 years later and still don’t have a permanent replacement in service.

 

[Oldgateboatdriver]

not entirely a fair comparison. Their first ship design had already been accepted apart from whatever tweeks they have put into it and it is indeed under construction: in Helsinki. The completed hull will be dragged across the Atlantic for those finishing touches.

I think it's fair: The other yards had years to upgrade their facilities, but you are not willing to give Davie a similar amount of time to upgrade theirs. I bet you don't know what they have done to date to upgrade them since getting the Agreement signed.

 

[Nvlgzr]

I think it's fair: The other yards had years to upgrade their facilities, but you are not willing to give Davie a similar amount of time to upgrade theirs. I bet you don't know what they have doe to date to upgrade them since getting the Agreement signed.

Note Irving is upgrading their facilities again for River class production

 

[Nvlgzr]

I think it's fair: The other yards had years to upgrade their facilities, but you are not willing to give Davie a similar amount of time to upgrade theirs. I bet you don't know what they have done to date to upgrade them since getting the Agreement signed.

I think what bothers people about Davie is that a major part of the build for CCGS Arpatuuq is offshore and the uncertainty about how much of the Program Icebreakers will be built offshore.

 

[DBNSG]

I think what bothers people about Davie is that a major part of the build for CCGS Arpatuuq is offshore and the uncertainty about how much of the Program Icebreakers will be built offshore.

Exactly, it seems Davie gets to play by a different set of Rules. Set by them and ignore Ottawa but take the Cheque

 

[YZT580]

I think it's fair: The other yards had years to upgrade their facilities, but you are not willing to give Davie a similar amount of time to upgrade theirs. I bet you don't know what they have done to date to upgrade them since getting the Agreement signed.

I am totally willing to give them credit for any improvements and I don't know what improvements they have made. But whatever they have done, they still aren't building Canadian ships in Canada: yet. I was simply saying that they are off and running because they haven't needed to incorporate the improvements needed to start systematic production of their allotment but are relying on a yard that is able to actually build something. Unfortunately it isn't in Canada. If Irving had contracted or bought out and used a facility in Romania I am sure we could have had the first Harry DeWolf much sooner: but they didn't. Instead they built it here but only after they made the improvements. Plus the plans hadn't been approved which is a problem that Davie didn't have to deal with. Irving didn't get the contract approval until 2015. From there they laid the keel in 2016, launched in 2018 and commissioned in 2021: not unusual for first of class. I will sit back and allow Davie to rise or fall from this point forward but I won't denigrate The other two yards or puff up Davie's achievements. Neither deserve it.

 

[Stoker]

I think what bothers people about Davie is that a major part of the build for CCGS Arpatuuq is offshore and the uncertainty about how much of the Program Icebreakers will be built offshore.

Davie did have a very large piece of Asterix built in Finland and floated over to accelerate timelines to access those sweet lease monies.

 

[Underway]

FIFY.
Ontario Shipyards getting NSS getting work is non starter. Seaspan and Davie are going to need work in 8-10 years and therefore I would expect the CDC to be pushed out till then to avoid the valley of death. The alternative would be to suspend build of Rivers after Mackenzie .

Well lets break it down.

Seaspan has a Polar Class Icebreaker to finish after the 2 JSS (which are about 1.5 years out for both). Then they have 16ish Medium Icebreakers to build. The calculation is approx 12 more years of work.

Davie needs to finish their Polar Class (2030), and have 6 program Icebreakers after that (building till 2038) so that's also 12 years for them (also have some ferries and such going on).

Irving has 15 RCD's to complete which is going to take them about 20 years from this point. First delivery is 2032 and one every year after that... or so.

So given the above none of the major shipyards have any obvious spare capacity at their main yards. That leaves other yards to build FASST-V and CDC. CDC also has the discussion of being split between multiple yards (likely two). Where they build 3 ships each and based on performance get more of them. The next largest yard in the country is Ontario Shipyards. And Ontario is the place most negatively effected by the current economic situation. Based on this I think Ontario Shipyards has a good chance at building FASST-V at a minimum and likely could get partial contract for the CDC.