CBC Interview with new RCAF Commander

[daftandbarmy]

And sadly, I suspect we can never COMPLETELY separate politics

Yes, sadly, we know

Harjit Sajjan - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[dimsum]

Its definitely an Animal Farm scenario for a lot of the troops I talk to, even moreso on the r/CanadianForces reddit.

They see no difference between politician/bureaucrat and Senior officer, as they're of the opinion the former has castrated the latter in matters of military policy

Much of CAF Reddit thinks that anyone above the rank of Cpl is a careerist bootlicker, so I'd take that sub with a massive grain of salt.

I just go there for the memes and some easy admin questions at this point. The rest is too toxic, and they love bashing this site for being toxic.

But I digress.

 

[Halifax Tar]

Fine line, though, with any military with elected civilian oversight.

Generals/bureaucrats publicly snub/disagree with politicians we DON'T like or agree with? Rock on, stick it to the man, speak truth to power, be brave ....

Generals/bureaucrats publicly snub/disagree with politicians we DO like or agree with? Who elected those f#$%^&ers, disloyal f%^&(ks, treasonous f#$%^&(kers ....

Good for the goose ...

And sadly, I suspect we can never COMPLETELY separate politics

One can be loyal to an organization and vocally/publicly express dissatisfiers. I would argue those that do are more loyal as they want the organization to be better.

Much of CAF Reddit thinks that anyone above the rank of Cpl is a careerist bootlicker, so I'd take that sub with a massive grain of salt.

I just go there for the memes and some easy admin questions at this point. The rest is too toxic, and they love bashing this site for being toxic.

But I digress.

I don't reddit, is it that bad ?

 

[The Bread Guy]

One can be loyal to an organization and vocally/publicly express dissatisfiers. I would argue those that do are more loyal as they want the organization to be better.

True enough, but I'm just saying that I wouldn't be surprised at different reactions to the same "speaking truth to power" depending on whether one agrees or disagrees with the speech in question.

OP edit to add: Consider these two folks from some time back - which one's the heroic one, and which one's the disloyal one?

US Marine Discharged for Criticizing Obama « VOA Breaking News

(( Title: US MARINE OBAMA HEAD: US Marine Discharged for Criticizing Obama DATE: 04/25/12 PUBLISHED AT: Wednesday, April 25, 2012 7:00:31 PM (Press Alt+D here before publishing to generate a timestamp) NUMBER: 2385697 AUDIO: VIDEO: WEB: TYPE: CN The U.S. Marine Corps is discharging a nine-year...

blogs.voanews.com

MARINE WOULD RATHER SERVE TIME THAN SERVE BUSH

This is the point where some confused souls — mistaking paternalism for patriotism — think we should all shut up, rally around the flag and stand behind President Bush, no matter what d…

www.sun-sentinel.com

I don't reddit, is it that bad ?

I don't either, but I've heard the same thing as Dimsum describes from others smarter than me who do.

 

[FSTO]

as far as I can remember its always been the admirals that fall on their swords for the betterment of the CAF

My opinion only. The navy is the one service that is most out of sight, out of mind of the general public. The Army is always around for disaster relief (yes there is always sailors and RCAF pers involved but the NCD's are few in number and the RCAF CADPAT is indistinguishable from the Army CADPAT) and the RCAF has the Snowbirds. The Navy does its work away from the public and therefore is very cognizant that it has to fight hard when something is going to happen to its core capabilities. There was a reason why Norman went to the wall when the Trudeau government tried to reconsider the iAOR concept. Even though he was no longer in charge of the Navy he ensured the Navy continued to have a limited deployed/forward logistics capability while the JSS was being built.

 

[Halifax Tar]

My opinion only. The navy is the one service that is most out of sight, out of mind of the general public. The Army is always around for disaster relief (yes there is always sailors and RCAF pers involved but the NCD's are few in number and the RCAF CADPAT is indistinguishable from the Army CADPAT) and the RCAF has the Snowbirds. The Navy does its work away from the public and therefore is very cognizant that it has to fight hard when something is going to happen to its core capabilities. There was a reason why Norman went to the wall when the Trudeau government tried to reconsider the iAOR concept. Even though he was no longer in charge of the Navy he ensured the Navy continued to have a limited deployed/forward logistics capability while the JSS was being built.

I'm currently posted to an Army Reserve CBG HQ. I wear CADPAT everyday. Its been a shock the amount of times I am now getting stopped and thanked or my service, which never happened when I was in a Naval order of dress.

I think you're on to something.

 

[Halifax Tar]

True enough, but I'm just saying that I wouldn't be surprised at different reactions to the same "speaking truth to power" depending on whether one agrees or disagrees with the speech in question.

OP edit to add: Consider these two folks from some time back - which one's the heroic one, and which one's the disloyal one?

US Marine Discharged for Criticizing Obama « VOA Breaking News

(( Title: US MARINE OBAMA HEAD: US Marine Discharged for Criticizing Obama DATE: 04/25/12 PUBLISHED AT: Wednesday, April 25, 2012 7:00:31 PM (Press Alt+D here before publishing to generate a timestamp) NUMBER: 2385697 AUDIO: VIDEO: WEB: TYPE: CN The U.S. Marine Corps is discharging a nine-year...

blogs.voanews.com

MARINE WOULD RATHER SERVE TIME THAN SERVE BUSH

This is the point where some confused souls — mistaking paternalism for patriotism — think we should all shut up, rally around the flag and stand behind President Bush, no matter what d…

www.sun-sentinel.com

I don't either, but I've heard the same thing as Dimsum describes from others smarter than me who do.

Speaking truth to power is one thing, and being openly insubordinate is another. One must learn to differentiate and navigate appropriately.

Examples:

"Organization XXX is broken, we need XYZ to fix it; and sir you are not helping." Speaking truth to power.

"I hate politician XXX, we should overthrow the gov." Insubordination.

 

[Quirky]

I don't reddit, is it that bad ?

It's a hive-mind and eco chamber like you've never seen before. Extreme distaste for the CAF as a whole, very close to the point of 'why are you still in the military if you hate it that much'? The CAF doesn't owe you a job and the machine will continue to operate without you, and will forget you just as fast when you leave. Move onto something else or move up in rank where you can affect change. Lots of good ideas coming from some of those threads and it's a generally younger crowd, which can be good or bad.

 

[The Bread Guy]

"Organization XXX is broken, we need XYZ to fix it; and sir you are not helping." Speaking truth to power.

"I hate politician XXX, we should overthrow the gov." Insubordination.

Good differentiation. However, both examples I gave never said to "turf the bums", only that "you're not going down the right road, and I'm not going to follow illegal orders down that road." The "rightness" is in the eye of the beholder.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

My opinion only. The navy is the one service that is most out of sight, out of mind of the general public. The Army is always around for disaster relief (yes there is always sailors and RCAF pers involved but the NCD's are few in number and the RCAF CADPAT is indistinguishable from the Army CADPAT) and the RCAF has the Snowbirds. The Navy does its work away from the public and therefore is very cognizant that it has to fight hard when something is going to happen to its core capabilities. There was a reason why Norman went to the wall when the Trudeau government tried to reconsider the iAOR concept. Even though he was no longer in charge of the Navy he ensured the Navy continued to have a limited deployed/forward logistics capability while the JSS was being built.

What I am seeing right now on the West Coast is a navy that is working hard to be in the public eye with vessel tours, attending events and a eye to long term recruitment polices including supporting Sea and Navy League Cadets. What I hear from the public is they are appreciative of getting a chance to learn from these sailors, about their navy and life aboard.