Cdn. Forces to accelerate enlistment of recruits

[Pearson]

Back to Regimental Battle Schools for the Army? 

Is there room in Gagetown etc. for a floor of rooms for recruits? I don't know how crowded the shacks are no, back when i was in there were generally 3 or less to a room on base(Work Point).  Bring the infantry recruits straight to the base, and train from day one. Thinking that the NCO issue would be easier to bear at the unit. Ranges and training areas already in place. 10 rooms per platoon. I suspect that the training standards at the base would not slip to increase quotas. Gaining company, supplies the NCO's while the other troops are training under 2ic's and other companies for other trade related courses as MG, Recce, Dvr etc.

Mod tenting could be used for platoon and section classrooms if there is lack of classroom availability. Uncomfortable but it works.

Holding platoon for the injured can be used by the base for GD etc.

Run 3 courses in series, starting 10 weeks apart, even with 30% wash out gets you 20 new pers per company every 30 weeks.

Savings on TD pay, moving costs, airfare, construction etc.

My .02
Go ahead and tear it apart.

 

[muffin]

Not sure about St Jean but I am assuming they are going full-tilt, with no room to add more in there.  So if not there, then where? 

They have added another 241 recruits for Fall and I know our AF OPME courses have been asked to find alternative locations for winter because the recruits are filling the mega and moving to the campus next.

The buzz here is that they are shipping them to St Jean before thier PT testing etc and prepping them ... but I can't confirm this.

I wonder if this is why hubby received his IEP (?? 25 yr) contract this week -  over a year early?!

muffin

 

[17thRecceSgt]

Well it seems to me that the BMQ problem may be being looked after, and the more serious bottleneck appears to be at the MOC QL3/PCF level training...so if thats the bottleneck, then that is what should be addressed.  Troops finishing their BE without being MOC qual'd, 18 month wait for AVN Tech QL3, Paracowboy saying the current Battle Schools are topped out...there is the bottleneck.  So resource it with what you can/have, and do what you can.  It's someting, and something is better than nothing.

You would think that the folks at LFDTS and like organizations would be up late at night trying to find the solution to this, and that the COs of WATC, Meaford, Gagetown (CTC side) are being asked to "prep and plan for an increase in troops, get your shite together now and tell us what you need".

I am not sure if this would work, but maybe for the next...12 months? x amount of time?  all the RSS folks, and avail. for Class B Res NCO types should be pulled in to "Area Training Centers" to resource the shortage?

There has to be SOME solution, some help, albeit not a perfect one...

 

[cameron]

Good day, I can't help but wonder, will those applying to be commissioned officers benefit from this accelerated recruiting process, or is it aimed only at NCM recruits?  Also, what about potential recruits born outside of Canada (like yours truly), whose background checks may take more time, is that issue being addressed?

 

[paracowboy]

You would think that the folks at LFDTS and like organizations would be up late at night trying to find the solution to this, and that the COs of WATC, Meaford, Gagetown (CTC side) are being asked to "prep and plan for an increase in troops, get your shite together now and tell us what you need".

the Schools are just as strapped, if not more so, than the line units. it's very simple math, and we just can't do what the Guvmint says to. We just ain't got the NCOs. We can/have promote Ptes to MCpl, but that still doesn't equal a trained NCO. The Liberals did us in. Took us 10 - 15 years to get here, and we can't fix it overnight. No matter what CDS and MND tell us. Can't be done.

 

[doomwolf]

With regards to St Jean, I just graduated high school this year and a guy in my class is going to RMC, but not until about now b/c there was no space to put him on his basic this summer.

As for QL3's, I know the clerk one has some out dated stuff (adding machine anyone?), so presumabley there are others in the same fix. Some pruning of course content might be useful to get rid of usless stuff that takes up training time so the course can finnish sooner, allowing another one to start.

 

[foerestedwarrior]

With regards to St Jean, I just graduated high school this year and a guy in my class is going to RMC, but not until about now b/c there was no space to put him on his basic this summer.

As for QL3's, I know the clerk one has some out dated stuff (adding machine anyone?), so presumabley there are others in the same fix. Some pruning of course content might be useful to get rid of usless stuff that takes up training time so the course can finnish sooner, allowing another one to start.

Well from what I have seen(Inf QL3), there is barley enough time to get all the content taught. It is all required training.

 

[Wookilar]

WRT QL3 training, much of the issue is pure infrastructure. Especially for the different tech trades. With CFSEME, Vehicle Coy, our new school is packed and has been for some time. Even topped out, you can only run maybe 12 QL3, a few more maybe, but that's only if they shut down QL5 and specialty courses. There are only so many class rooms and floor space available. It would be outrageously expensive and a serious pain in the butt to try and run tech courses without the proper setup. I imagine the other tech schools are going to be similar. They were never designed, or equipped, to handle this kind of influx. Hence the back logs everywhere.
  An idea that may work for some trades, that would cut down training time, would be to "contract out" X amount of positions to colleges. NSIT, NAIT, etc. would be able to train so many mechanics, plumbers, truckers, aircraft mechs, etc. Veh techs do it with qualified mechanics all the time, but instead of just one or two at a time, have a couple serials. QL3's done in a couple of months of mil specific training. With the trades that have civilian counterparts, this could help in the training back log and at least stop people from VR'ing before their 3's start.

 

[rogsco]

I don't know why they just don't say "we can't train the people we need 'cause the Liberal government of a decade+ screwed us, we have never recovered from FRP and were up shite creek without a paddle or a bucket".

Just thought I might point out (and don't get me wrong, I am just as dismayed with the decimation of the CF as the rest of you, I joined way back when too), but the effects we are feeling today from the FRP can't be laid all at the Liberal's feet. Remember the Rt Hon Brian Mulroney who managed to get a lot of the CF vote in 84 when he promised to undo some of the damage done by the previous liberal government and the already long years of neglect? What did we get? Fancy new coloured uniforms and ... wait for it ... the FRP and the close out of CFB Baden and Lahr! FRP downsizing was Conservative invention in late 91 and started in FY 92 continuing to FY 96 with about 14,000 members gone. Remember that the Liberals didn't come back to power until late 93, they did continue the trend. So, that's to say, it hasn't just been a decade of neglect, more like a few decades both Conservative and Liberal governments have had their kick at the cat. Let's just hope that the current plans to spend and rebuild (and its going to be a hard slog and take time) are longer lasting that the next election and that the rug doesn't get pulled out from under the CF again.

 

[17thRecceSgt]

the Schools are just as strapped, if not more so, than the line units. it's very simple math, and we just can't do what the Guvmint says to. We just ain't got the NCOs. We can/have promote Ptes to MCpl, but that still doesn't equal a trained NCO. The Liberals did us in. Took us 10 - 15 years to get here, and we can't fix it overnight. No matter what CDS and MND tell us. Can't be done.

Ok, seen.  The problem still exists though, that there are gonna be more people coming.  And they need "someone" to train them.  What they "should" be doing is grabbin' all the folks out of HQs and stuff, that they could put somewhere else, and get "us" to do some of the work.  Problem is, no one wants to let their people go.

Case in point, I was "supposed" to go Crse WO the DP1 Res Crewman crse this summer, CO changed his mind, cancelled my tasking.  Meanwhile, the units had to send all their C Clk's to run SQ courses...so me and my MCpl, also Cmbt Arms, glued our arses to the chair again and sat the summer out in the HQ. 

Some mindsets are gonna have to change to make the best of this...people sitting around twidling their thumbs for 18 months waiting QL3 courses probably ain't going to improve the situation...

So I guess the question is then, Paracowboy, and everyone, what is the Forces gonna do if they get told "make it happen!" by Higher?

'Cause that is what seems is gonna happen.

Options are?

1.  Not streamline recruiting times.
2.  Streamline recruiting timelines, troops then spend 1.5 years playing with themselves waiting for courses.
3.  The Forces pulls everyone possible out of Range Control, HQs, etc etc to get the trng done, using qualified and experienced pers from the Res force, pull some people off the SHR is needed and they are up to the task, to run the MOC courses.  That seems like a "something is better than nothing" option.  I am an example, I have put thru tons of recruit, QL3, QL4, CLC courses...so drag my *** out of the HQ, and put me to work.  Find everyone like me.  Put them to work.

I dunno, there has to be a "something is better than nothing" option...is it #3?  I am thinking of the "don't come to me with a problem unless you have a solution" saying...

Or this is all just gonna mean people are pissed off waiting for courses, instead of waiting to be sworn in.

*editted for spelling

 

[paracowboy]

I dunno. I dunno what the solutions are gonna be. What I think should happen is - pull in every swingin' dick off every non-operational tasking, activate the Reserves, and open up nuthin' but schools. All across the nation, just like WW II. Pump 'em through. If possible, for trades training with civvie counter-parts, send 'em off. Screw the Dog and Ponies. Forget the nonsense. To hell with parades. Pull in troops from every unit, and open up huge-ass Schools.

The thing I see really happening, though, will be a drop in Standards just to meet quotas. With bottlenecks at the Trades, and tens of thousands of recruits finishing their IE in PAT platoon.

I'd like to be wrong. I want to believe there's a plan in place, and we just don't see it.

 

[Scoobie Newbie]

Quick you better punch someone out and get reduced to Cpl so your not made to teach.

 

[17thRecceSgt]

I dunno. I dunno what the solutions are gonna be. What I think should happen is - pull in every swingin' dick off every non-operational tasking, activate the Reserves, and open up nuthin' but schools. All across the nation, just like WW II. Pump 'em through. If possible, for trades training with civvie counter-parts, send 'em off. Screw the Dog and Ponies. Forget the nonsense. To hell with parades. Pull in troops from every unit, and open up huge-*** Schools.

+1 to that, agreed, and I can see a bunch of kickers, screamers and whiners at my HQ if they get tasked.  We really have some people wasting very good air where I work.

The thing I see really happening, though, will be a drop in Standards just to meet quotas. With bottlenecks at the Trades, and tens of thousands of recruits finishing their IE in PAT platoon.

I'd like to be wrong. I want to believe there's a plan in place, and we just don't see it.

I think you can collect your $200 for going past Go on this one too, what are the chances they have a plan, and waiting to give it at a "surprise party".

Ya.  We're screwed.

Wait for the last minute "band-aid" fix that will be more f**cked up than the current sit.  :

 

[17thRecceSgt]

Quick you better punch someone out and get reduced to Cpl so your not made to teach.

Sadly enough, I know some folks that would probably consider that option... :

"but I am just a insert non-combat arms trade here" comments that I thought only existed in myths and legends until I got sent to the HQ.

 

[probum non poenitet]

activate the Reserves

I wonder if it's time (or nearly time) for that here ... the U.S. has activated several divisions of part-timers.

Quickly ... to the Batcave!

 

[McG]

Sounds like the next annoucement will be "CF cancels all BTEs, sailing schedules, shuts down Air Force FOLs to train influx of new personnel."

Actually, it was the second line of operations that was clawed back in order to find resources for all this additional training.

 

[dapaterson]

Brief Tangent:

McG: the second line was scaled back to provide instructors, but also because certain parts of the Army could not support two simultaneous lines (hint: it's not Inf or Armd where the shortfalls lie)

Back on topic:

There are many plans; the problem is that some decisions about the force structure have yet to be taken.  It's difficult to recruit when you don't know what occupations people will be training for, or what the sequence for growth will be.  Growth is tied to government decisions; without those, plans aren't fully developed  (or, at least, can't be promulgated because they are contingency only).

Very frustrating for everyone.