CDN Forces used to Force Confederation?

[MAJOR_Baker]

I read an interesting article today on the highly acclaimed CBC website and the whole premise of the article was that CDN Forces would have been sent to Quebec to "protect" Federal buildings and property if the last referendum on separation had passed. What do CDN military personnel think of this? Could it be a possible contingency mission...peace keeping in Quebec? Sounds rediculous, but I guess anything is possible! I remember martial law being imposed by the Canadian Federal Government because of the FLQ....could it happen again? Sends chills up my spine to think about Canadians taking up arms against each other..... :warstory:

Does the CDN charter of rights and freedoms allow Quebec to separate? The CDN federal government gave the Nunavit and ? areas limited autonomy could the same happen to Quebec? I looked at the charter briefly...I think it is open to interpretation whether Quebec has the right. :boring: Although I am not quite sure...then again Prime Minister Chretin said it was all Bull$hit, I think in french :blotto:

 

[Bert]

The "Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms" as you put it is not the document that describes and specifies provincial and federal jurisdiction in regards to seccession. A province can "separate" but the legal process for it is very daunting.

Since WW2 to the present, Canada has evolved from a strictly federal constitutional monarchy to a more watered down federal-provincial constitutional monarchy. The provinces now, Quebec, Nunavut, and Alberta as direct examples,
and the other provinces, have control and a majority of juristdiction over health, education, and resources. In retrospect, they are more autonomous then they ever have been in history.
Attitudes and points of view are very regional and I think most Canadians know this.

The idea of Quebec independance or seccession is not a new idea. Separatist and federal governments have plans, discussions, and processes that would be implemented in the case of a positive separatist vote in a Quebec referendum. In the case of the former Yugoslavia and others, there was no process and seccession was declared immediately and unilaterally.

In the case of Quebec, a positive separatist vote
does not mean an immediate and unilateral vote for seccession. Its just starts a long and complicated legal separation process that will involve municipal, provincial, aboriginal, national issues and likely involve the world court, Quebec, and the rest of Canada.

It would be prudent of Canada to sent the RCMP to protect and oversee the transistion of federal assets back to Canada. I personally couldn‘t say whether the CF would be required but it would be in someone‘s plans for sure. Once again, it would be part of a legal process and not a military action.

In my opinion, there is no "hate" or cultural animosity to create significant violence. People here in Canada are more concerned about jobs, security, and the quality of life.

 

[Michael Dorosh]

Bert‘s last para is dead on. When I was in Borden, and actually got to talk to Francophones, I found they have pretty much the same concerns with life in general as the rest of us, and felt no animosity to the Anglophone majority. Of course, having signed on the dotted line, they were not really a great sampling of the Francophone population.

 

[Padraig OCinnead]

I have always felt that it is so hard to really know the general feelings and mindset of a group of people if you only get information second or third hand. There are many Albertans I‘ve met who get most of their knowlegde of Quebecois through the media (with all of it‘s hang ups and political agendas). Just as much I am sure there are Quebequois and other segments of our Country that think of folks from Vancouver only what has been filtered and presented to them.

What made the early seventies so different from today Mr. Dorosh? Why wouldnt Ottawa send the Airborne into Vieux Quebec and Hull? (yes I know they‘ve been disbanded but I was using them as an example cuz they were there the first time)Is it the strength of our PM ? The lack of overall political awareness and passion in todays generation that is able of making changes? Were my parents and their generations that much more passionate ?

Bert... If they were that passionate then where did that ""hate" or cultural animosity to create significant violence" that caused Laporte to be murdered come from? And the Airborne to be patrolling Canadian streets with fixed bayonets looking for bombs planted by their own countrymen?


Or have I had just one to many wine with supper and am now just rambling??

 

[Bert]

Padraig>
"...If they were that passionate then where did that ""hate" or cultural animosity to create significant violence" that caused Laporte to be murdered come from? And the Airborne to be patrolling Canadian streets with fixed bayonets looking for bombs planted by their own countrymen?
..."

Interesting points. I think you may have to specify who you meant by "they". The people that murdered LaPorte had their own agenda and didn‘t represent the actions of the broader populace. The CF was deployed to the area but I don‘t quite understand your implication. Are you suggesting they shouldn‘t have been deployed?

What Major Baker asked is would the Canadian Forces be deployed into Quebec given a positive separatist referendum to protect national property. My opinion is "no" because a referendum is part of a legal process, not one of violence, bombs, or aggression. It is not an immediate and unilateral statement of independance, yet it is a lengthy process towards that goal. The transfer of power and the wrangling of borders, responsiblities, debt, defence, aboriginal issues will all take its time. Likely the RCMP would be given the reponsibility of overseeing national interest transfers in conjunction with the Quebec authories.

A scenario of violence is certainly possible. I doubt very much it would occur between provinces or the broader populations. Any violence that could occur would be localized within Quebec and within differing communities. Small areas of violence could be contained by the police forces.

Violence on a greater scale like the use of bombs is beyond the capability of the local police forces. This would be the work of a select few with their own agenda and not those of the people. The Quebec authorites may request the CF, RCMP, and CSIS assistance and be employed to protect the population in general. (This is my own speculations and not intended to offend anyone).

 

[Bert]

This is difficult to write about. I‘m from Ontario and have my own opinions and perceptions and I certainly don‘t have the biggest picture.

In Quebec, like most provinces, they have their own municipal and provinical police forces and perform duties mainly at that level. The RCMP in Quebec co-manage duties relating to federal and national criminal investigations and co-operate very well with other police forces.

Being a "federal police force", they would certainly be involved in the protection or monitoring of national assets (www.rcmp.gc.ca). I‘d assume they are doing that even now. Definitely, there would be co-operation and interaction with other services. Assuming a scenario that Quebec or any other province may separate, this process of transference could take years and not something that occurs over-night. It may not even be apparent to the public. Armed RCMP standing in doorways is not something one would see if that is what you‘re getting at.

Animosity would be generated in the Quebec population between those that support and do not support separation from Canada. Its feasible groups within one community may be antagonistic towards another and cause violent clashes. The real issue is there. The RCMP and federal assets would not be primary target for violence. The IMF
protests are a good example of violence. Its rare to see "protestor against protestor" violence but lots against "protestor against the government". Its because the government is the primary focus for the protestors. I‘d say the general population would be relatively uninterested in RCMP and continue with business. Certain groups with their own agenda of course could throw in a wild card.

Someone from Quebec would be best to discuss the feelings of the average Quebecer. From my experience, it depends who you ask. It would be safe to say that a majority of french in Quebec would support independance and a majority of other
nationalities and aboriginals living in Quebec wouldn‘t. The last referendum was very close to accepting a separation vote.

Suffice to say, everyone is more concerned about their jobs, security for the future, and quality of life. Living in a global environment now, it binds us more together than 20 years ago.

Canada, to me, has become very regional. One may say Quebec is its own distinct region. It seems that so is Nunavut, the NWT, and perceptions in Alberta, Ontario, the east coast, and BC also somewhat "distinct". Anyone from Ontario who has ever tried to get a job in Alberta may understand what I mean.

In Canadian cities, you‘ll find Chinese, east Europeans, Italians, Somalians, Polish, Spanish, French, Indian, middle easterners, Australians, Vietnamese, South Africans and many others. I buy my hot sauce from a Chinese store, get my munchies from a Pakistani grocery, and bought my car from some guy. We‘re used to the differences
and accept it for what its worth most of the time.
We accept the fact that Quebec is distinct but in other ways so is chinatown in Mississauga. Ahh, what can you do?

 

[Padraig OCinnead]

Bert,

First of all I‘d like to thank you for reading and truly getting many of my thoughts and meanings from what I wrote.

You noticed something in my statement that I‘ve always tried to keep low key in my profession and life. You mentionned if I was suggesting that they shouldn‘t have been deployed. I have always felt very bad about having my fellow countrymen patrolling Canadian streets with weapons. Even more to the point I am worried that it would be dealt with again. (I do understand that the seperatist movement in Quebec is losing much of its power, or so it seems.

You said "Suffice to say, everyone is more concerned about their jobs, security for the future, and quality of life. Living in a global environment now, it binds us more together than 20 years ago" This makes alot of sense to me. It‘s definitly my most recurring concern as I know have a family.

All of my family were born in Quebec and I spent most of my childhood either there or in my home town of Timmins. This gave some insight into Quebecois lifestyle if only at northern Quebec regions.

I will specify who I meant by "They". By they I meant more in particular the FLQ but also more generally the generation to which they belonged. I agree (mostly) with your statement the "they had their own agenda" and did not represent the broader populace but there were many innocent people (varying degrees of innocence) who hid the actions of the FLQ or perhaps aided in the events. If I can, I‘d like to present Iraq as an example of people aiding terrorist group/insurgents/freedom fighters. I feel that much of the bombings, shootings and ambushes of American targets over there are being done with the complicit knowledge if not outright aid of many civilians.

I am not sure if violence would stay confined to the province or regions. The provincial borders at very informal and unmanned. I can‘t see how it couldn‘t spill over territorial bounderies. And as for the local police or provincial police handling it, I don‘t think I could agree there. I mean they couldn‘t handle Ipperwash without gunning down unarmed civilians. They had to call in the army into Oka when they dropped the ball. They aren‘t doing any good with the Micmaw in N.B.

With the lack of jobs in Northern Ontario there are many men moving down to southern Ontario to get jobs in plants and factories. If anyone has worked in the oilfields of Alberta then you‘ve met at least 3-5 Newfs working there. Saskatchewan families are going to BC for better or worst. So were not as regional as we once were.


Once again thanks for replying to my post. I appreciate it. Sometimes I think I have a talent for editorials. But I like soldiering too much to change now. Old dog new tricks sorta thing.

 

[Padraig OCinnead]

I really gotta make those shorter.