CDN/US Covid-related political discussion

[FJAG]

... I'm super excited we're on week 80 of 2 weeks to flatten the curve, especially since the curve has been flattened, Ottawa hospitals have no COVID patients, COVID units are being shut down in the GTA but we're still clinging to mask wearing and restrictions despite booming vaccination rates at levels proven in other societies (UK, Israel) to be safe for return to full normal. You only need to look at the UK's example where vaccination delinked hospitalization/mortality from rising case numbers, but Canadian media still is pounding on the case count drum every day. We're never going to stop COVID from killing someone, it's endemic and here to stay. Time to start acting like it.

We are doing very well. Canada is down to only 261 new cases today with 577 hospitalizations (249 in ICUs) and .2 deaths / 100,000 in the last seven days (I think that's roughly 80 people) and everything is still dropping.

I read the Daily Mail ... well daily ... and while I take most things it reports with more than a grain of salt, it indicates that the UK on the other hand, who bottomed out in May and then got hit by Delta, today recoded 48,000 infections per day; has hospitalizations of 740 rising by 31% and daily deaths steady at around 25 per day but showing a slight rise since April. There is great debate about the upcoming Freedom Day. The infection rate rise started to accelerate heavily in June.

That can be interpreted, and is being interpreted, in many ways. If hospitalizations and deaths are significantly lagging infections then there could be a sharp increase coming in both. On the other hand, you might very well be right and the massive increase of infections, with most of the elderly already protected by immunization, and the low hospitalization and death rise may indicate that there truly has been a delinking. Personally I think its a bit early to tell. Once the hospitalization and death increase rate peaks or at least levels off, we should be able to tell. For Canada, the good news is that the UK curves are ahead of us by around a month or more in this case and therefore ought to be an indicator of how the next wave will play out for us.

Pressure mounts on PM Boris Johnson to end self-isolation crisis

 

[Altair]

We are doing very well. Canada is down to only 261 new cases today with 577 hospitalizations (249 in ICUs) and .2 deaths / 100,000 in the last seven days (I think that's roughly 80 people) and everything is still dropping.

I read the Daily Mail ... well daily ... and while I take most things it reports with more than a grain of salt, it indicates that the UK on the other hand, who bottomed out in May and then got hit by Delta, today recoded 48,000 infections per day; has hospitalizations of 740 rising by 31% and daily deaths steady at around 25 per day but showing a slight rise since April. There is great debate about the upcoming Freedom Day. The infection rate rise started to accelerate heavily in June.

That can be interpreted, and is being interpreted, in many ways. If hospitalizations and deaths are significantly lagging infections then there could be a sharp increase coming in both. On the other hand, you might very well be right and the massive increase of infections, with most of the elderly already protected by immunization, and the low hospitalization and death rise may indicate that there truly has been a delinking. Personally I think its a bit early to tell. Once the hospitalization and death increase rate peaks or at least levels off, we should be able to tell. For Canada, the good news is that the UK curves are ahead of us by around a month or more in this case and therefore ought to be an indicator of how the next wave will play out for us.

Pressure mounts on PM Boris Johnson to end self-isolation crisis

The UK did well with their vaccination drive.

Too well.

The data can be interpreted in many ways, but the key here is the science coming out suggesting that immunity only lasts 6 months post vaccination.

Canada got a bulk of its vaccines within the last 2-3 months, so we are working with fresh immunity.

Countries that got ahead of us, the UK, USA and Israel are all seeing rising case loads. And while one can say that some of those places didn't have a great uptake of the vaccines, they would be wrong. Israel crushed it.

So what we may be seeing is that, like in people who recovered from covid having 6 months of immunity, at least from the variant that infected them, a 6 month period where the vaccine immunity is strong, then wanes.

Which is underwhelming to be honest. And it leaves Canada vulnerable as well as we head into winter where everyone goes inside, and the virus is more easily spread.

 

[Altair]

I'm just having fun with him....I laugh at those who think the last 18 months have made life a living hell, heavens forbid a real hardship should befall them.

Fair enough.

I wouldn't call it hell, but it certainly has been annoying.

The sooner it is over the better, but if there comes a point where this is just the new normal, well, so be it. It's not good for anybody to live like this long term.

 

[brihard]

I'm just having fun with him....I laugh at those who think the last 18 months have made life a living hell, heavens forbid a real hardship should befall them.

More easily said for some than for others... Those of us with secure government jobs/pensions have had a very different experience from those whose jobs disappeared and had to go on relief benefits. I have an employer who gave a damn, and who put positive protections in place against infection. Others had to keep working at factories, meat plants, long term care homes, etc. If I want exercise I've got a safe neighbourhood to run or walk in, and a decent gym in my basement. Others have been locked out of the gym for most of a year. There are parents who had to try to effectively home school kids while working a job. There are many people who last saw their parents when LTC lockdowns started... And then their parents caught COVID and died. I've not lost any loved ones during this time, and been unable to gather the family for a funeral. Some people already suffering from mental health issues have gone through a year plus of anxiety hell, or have seen their depression spiral badly. Kids have missed out on graduations, proms, and the day to day development of physically attending school. A years' worth of prospects in junior competitive sports may have missed out on the big chance they would have gotten. And then of course there's all the front line healthcare workers who've been through, effectively, a year and a half long tour of pretty damned hard duty that I wouldn't wish on anyone.

I guess what I'm saying is I'm uncomfortable trying to minimize how hard some people have had it. I personally have had relatively smooth sailing through all this, but I have tremendous advantages and privilege in our society and our economy. I think we all know people who have had a genuinely hard go through this...

 

[FJAG]

Fair enough.

I wouldn't call it hell, but it certainly has been annoying.

The sooner it is over the better, but if there comes a point where this is just the new normal, well, so be it. It's not good for anybody to live like this long term.

I've been taking flu shots annually for some time. Meanwhile it circulates out there, keeps mutating and continues to kill people a hundred years after surfacing.

My guess is we'll be doing something similar in the future. The vaccination rate may need to vary and maybe these new types of vaccine will become more efficient. Who knows right now (Not WHO but who)

The one thing I've always wondered about is the western societies reluctance to wear masks the way Asian countries' do. My three years in Ottawa consisted of various committee meetings at least twice a day and there was rarely one where I wasn't cringing and trying to stay out of the spray zone of someone affected by some virus or another. Why sick people don't take more sick leave or mask up when that happens is beyond me.

 

[Altair]

I've been taking flu shots annually for some time. Meanwhile it circulates out there, keeps mutating and continues to kill people a hundred years after surfacing.

Which may be the future for covid, unfortunately.

My guess is we'll be doing something similar in the future. The vaccination rate may need to vary and maybe these new types of vaccine will become more efficient. Who knows right now (Not WHO but who)

The one thing I've always wondered about is the western societies reluctance to wear masks the way Asian countries' do. My three years in Ottawa consisted of various committee meetings at least twice a day and there was rarely one where I wasn't cringing and trying to stay out of the spray zone of someone affected by some virus or another.

Something about the collective versus the individual I'm sure, and the repeated respiratory virus outbreaks in that region in the past few decades.

Why sick people don't take more sick leave or mask up when that happens is beyond me.

We as a society glorify those who tough it out for one, and a lot of people do not get paid when they take days off while sick is another.

Even the forces makes it hard. I've been sick, sneezing, cough, and work would give me 1 day off. Then I need to go to MIR if symptoms persist. Do I go to the MIR for a runny nose and sneezing? Or do I just say screw it and go in to work? Does a workforce that expects you to do your job under hostile fire really appreciate someone taking a day off for a cold?

Or the other issue, if I'm self employed, in gig work, don't have benefits. Do I forgo a day or two of pay because of a runny nose? What if that day or two of pay is the difference between paying rent or buying food? No way I take a day off. The Feds just put in a paid sick leave program but you need to have missed work for a week to qualify?what if I only need 2-3 days?

So between a society that it is seen as a good thing to tough it out or those who need those paychecks, people will continue to go to work while sick.

 

[daftandbarmy]

The mass exodus is nigh....

COVID-19: Briefing note #63, July 14, 2021​

The future of work is far from settled.​

The COVID-19 pandemic ushered in the opportunity to rethink how we work. It’s a sea change that occurs less than once in a generation and has the potential to reshape society in countless ways. This week, McKinsey examined the need for humility as leaders, organizations, and employees grapple with learning best practices, testing solutions, and admitting that nobody has all the answers in hand.

Companies risk alienating their employees—and even losing them—if they refuse to acknowledge the disconnect between how employers and their workers see the future. Employers want to reestablish normality by bringing workers back to the office; employees want far more work-from-home (exhibit).

For employers, the risks are high: recent surveys found that 40 percent of workers globally are considering leaving their current employers by the end of the year. Companies must acknowledge that figuring out a hybrid working model will be a long-term project and require a significant period of testing and learning.

COVID-19: Implications for business

Our latest perspectives on the coronavirus outbreak, the twin threats to lives and livelihoods, and how organizations can prepare for the next normal.

www.mckinsey.com

 

[Brad Sallows]

Even the forces makes it hard. I've been sick, sneezing, cough, and work would give me 1 day off.

That's an improvement. I was coughing up blood in my phlegm and got Aspergum.

 

[Good2Golf]

That's an improvement. I was coughing up blood in my phlegm and got Aspergum.

Clearly B.C. -- Before Cepacol....

 

[mariomike]

The one thing I've always wondered about is the western societies reluctance to wear masks the way Asian countries' do. My three years in Ottawa consisted of various committee meetings at least twice a day and there was rarely one where I wasn't cringing and trying to stay out of the spray zone of someone affected by some virus or another. Why sick people don't take more sick leave or mask up when that happens is beyond me.

I've been visiting my RMT once a week for years. She's from Japan and sometimes wears a mask. Long before Covid. She seems to suffer mild Hay Fever in spring and fall.

That's because she was raised in a culture of being considerate of other people. Sounds like you were too, FJAG.

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

More easily said for some than for others... Those of us with secure government jobs/pensions have had a very different experience from those whose jobs disappeared and had to go on relief benefits. I have an employer who gave a damn, and who put positive protections in place against infection. Others had to keep working at factories, meat plants, long term care homes, etc. If I want exercise I've got a safe neighbourhood to run or walk in, and a decent gym in my basement. Others have been locked out of the gym for most of a year. There are parents who had to try to effectively home school kids while working a job. There are many people who last saw their parents when LTC lockdowns started... And then their parents caught COVID and died. I've not lost any loved ones during this time, and been unable to gather the family for a funeral. Some people already suffering from mental health issues have gone through a year plus of anxiety hell, or have seen their depression spiral badly. Kids have missed out on graduations, proms, and the day to day development of physically attending school. A years' worth of prospects in junior competitive sports may have missed out on the big chance they would have gotten. And then of course there's all the front line healthcare workers who've been through, effectively, a year and a half long tour of pretty damned hard duty that I wouldn't wish on anyone.

I guess what I'm saying is I'm uncomfortable trying to minimize how hard some people have had it. I personally have had relatively smooth sailing through all this, but I have tremendous advantages and privilege in our society and our economy. I think we all know people who have had a genuinely hard go through this...

Totally agree....I guess I didn't do a good job of explaining my aiming point in my post.

That arrow was aimed at those who think getting vaccinated, having to wear a mask, having some travel restrictions, and having to do take out is the "living hell" of which I spoke.

I have a friend who quit Probation and Parole and used her pension money to open a gym just before covid hit, and as if that wasn't a gut punch enough, last week she lost her house in the Barrie tornado.
So yea, wearing a mask is such a hardship....

 

[mariomike]

So yea, wearing a mask is such a hardship....

When I think of old friends still being sent into sick people's homes, wearing a mask does not seem such a hardship....

 

[OceanBonfire]

Can't do much with the holdouts when misinformation has been clashing harder when facts are being boosted:

US virus cases nearly triple in 2 weeks amid misinformation

COVID-19 cases have nearly tripled in the U.S. over two weeks amid an onslaught of vaccine misinformation.

apnews.com

 

[Altair]

You're moving the goalposts again. I believe I already said "I guess so" to giving them credit.

Do I want to wait until September for the original, actual challenge? Of course.

Naw I don't want to deny you the chance to really really revel in being right. I feel you anchored on this so I don't wanna take that away.

All Canadians will be vaccinated by end of September. Let's see how it plays out.

So Canada has gotten 66 million vaccines, enough to vaccinate everyone over the age of 12 with two doses.

Are you willing to live up to your end of the bargain, and give credit where credit is due?

Canada now has enough COVID-19 vaccine doses to fully vaccinate all eligible citizens: PM

Canada currently has enough doses of COVID-19 vaccines in the country to fully vaccinate every eligible person over the age of 12, with more than 66 million doses received as of Tuesday. While more than 26 million of the eligible 33 million Canadians have rolled up their sleeves, the push is now...

beta.ctvnews.ca

 

[Altair]

Absolutely, I'll wear it. If everyone that want to be vaccinated, is so, by Sept 30/21. I'll happily admit I miscalculated.

As to promises. I don't much pay attention to the little stuff that really only affect the daily administrative items. I'm talking about things like the promise he made in 2010 when he said, "No way, I will never confiscate guns from Canadians", or words to that effect. Then we come to today.

So with Canada receiving 66 million vaccines now, that is enough to vaccinate everyone who wants one over the age of 12.

So, are you willing to live up to your end of the bargain and give credit where credit is due?

Canada now has enough COVID-19 vaccine doses to fully vaccinate all eligible citizens: PM

Canada currently has enough doses of COVID-19 vaccines in the country to fully vaccinate every eligible person over the age of 12, with more than 66 million doses received as of Tuesday. While more than 26 million of the eligible 33 million Canadians have rolled up their sleeves, the push is now...

beta.ctvnews.ca

 

[Remius]

The difference being Ford and Team exceeded the figure in question. Trudeau and Team is trending Ultimately we will have elections

I've been taking flu shots annually for some time. Meanwhile it circulates out there, keeps mutating and continues to kill people a hundred years after surfacing.

My guess is we'll be doing something similar in the future. The vaccination rate may need to vary and maybe these new types of vaccine will become more efficient. Who knows right now (Not WHO but who)

The one thing I've always wondered about is the western societies reluctance to wear masks the way Asian countries' do. My three years in Ottawa consisted of various committee meetings at least twice a day and there was rarely one where I wasn't cringing and trying to stay out of the spray zone of someone affected by some virus or another. Why sick people don't take more sick leave or mask up when that happens is beyond me.

I read a really interesting article on that. Some of it linked masks to heroes. In western culture heroes like zorro, the Lone Ranger, batman etc wear masks over their eyes. In Asian culture their heroes were masks to cover their mouths. Think ninjas. Now there are other factors like the flue pandemic in the 20th century, another disease after that and wearing masks after the bomb was dropped on Japan. So mask wearing is more acceptable there because they’ve been doing it in a more consistant fashion for a much longer time.

 

[Altair]

Canada now has enough COVID-19 vaccine doses to fully vaccinate all eligible citizens: PM

Canada currently has enough doses of COVID-19 vaccines in the country to fully vaccinate every eligible person over the age of 12, with more than 66 million doses received as of Tuesday. While more than 26 million of the eligible 33 million Canadians have rolled up their sleeves, the push is now...

beta.ctvnews.ca

OTTAWA -- Canada currently has enough doses of COVID-19 vaccines in the country to fully vaccinate every eligible person over the age of 12, with 66 million doses received as of Tuesday.

Prime Minister Justin Trudeau marked the vaccine milestone at a New Brunswick vaccination clinic.

“Back in the winter I made a promise that we would have enough vaccines for all eligible Canadians by the end of September. Not only have we kept that promise, we've done it two months ahead of schedule,” Trudeau said.

In June, Trudeau promised that by the end of this month, Canada would have received “over 68 million” doses of COVID-19 vaccines.

It's not how you start.

It's how you finish.

 

[Altair]

So give the Feds new kudos because they’ve changed the narrative from “vaccinated by September” to “first shot by July”, yet you want Ontario to completely clear doses given to them within a day or two?

I don’t think Canadians will be properly (fully, ie. both shots for Pfizer, Moderna and A-Z) vaccinated before September, per the original promise by the Federal Government.

Set up a roadside stand to serve crow all you like, Altair, but no one need consume any crow ALL Canadian adults who want to be, are FULLY vaccinated BEFORE September, as promised originally by Trudeau.

The difference being Ford and Team exceeded the figure in question. Trudeau and Team is trending towards a figure, but isn’t there yet.

See you in September…or we have 100% vaccination, whichever comes first.

Canada now has enough COVID-19 vaccine doses to fully vaccinate all eligible citizens: PM

Canada currently has enough doses of COVID-19 vaccines in the country to fully vaccinate every eligible person over the age of 12, with more than 66 million doses received as of Tuesday. While more than 26 million of the eligible 33 million Canadians have rolled up their sleeves, the push is now...

beta.ctvnews.ca

What about now?

 

[mariomike]

Now there are other factors like the flue pandemic in the 20th century, another disease after that and wearing masks after the bomb was dropped on Japan. So mask wearing is more acceptable there because they’ve been doing it in a more consistant fashion for a much longer time.

My RMT is from Japan. She was wearing a mask long before Covid. Not very often, but sometimes during Hay Fever season.

She explained Japanese culture considers mask-wearing linked with being a good family member, neighbour and citizen.

 

[Altair]

Oh, I must have missed the report that all Canadians who wanted to be, were fully vaccinated.

oh wait…32% = 100%…..New Math

Meanwhile, while you’re busy running around trying to get personal apologies from everyone who noted concern with how things were rolling out, you can also look at yourself in the mirror to identify when it was that you similarly acknowledged that Ford and Ontario had hit (and exceeded) their 150k daily target…that is if you can get past your red line as you see it, as lying.

We’ll see which comes first…all Canadians vaccinated or an apology/acknowledgment from you that Ford met and exceeded his promise…

Canada now has enough COVID-19 vaccine doses to fully vaccinate all eligible citizens: PM

Canada currently has enough doses of COVID-19 vaccines in the country to fully vaccinate every eligible person over the age of 12, with more than 66 million doses received as of Tuesday. While more than 26 million of the eligible 33 million Canadians have rolled up their sleeves, the push is now...

beta.ctvnews.ca

Just to reiterate.