Cenotaph/Memorial Vandalism/Solutions-Laws (merged)
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Went by on Saturday with my family - my much younger brother has never seen military up-close (sheltered existence, I know), and we were somewhat embarrassed that he lives in the area and never really got to experience much of the more "formal" ottawa.
In any event, we had just watched a changing ceremony (interesting, what with the orders given etc). When we were there, two corporals were being placed on duty by another corporal, with an additional corporal in 3Bs watching over the area from the side.
My brother had just asked me "so, what happens if someone tries to do something" when two little foreign girls (couldn't catch the accents well from their parents) jumped on the side portion of the Tomb. The guardsman saw it coming, because he was already moving to attention before their feet landed. "GET OFF THE TOMB!" was his exclamation, and then as they scampered off, a return to his former position.
Remarkably, there were a LOT Of pictures of their boots, and frm their boots up towards the sky. I didn't quite get it, but the whole group of tourists seemed to be loving it.
The bagpiper accompanying the march up to the change was also a superbly nice touch. Not a lot of people around, but as a taxpayer Im certainly happy to see my 0.002 portion going towards it!
In any event, we had just watched a changing ceremony (interesting, what with the orders given etc). When we were there, two corporals were being placed on duty by another corporal, with an additional corporal in 3Bs watching over the area from the side.
My brother had just asked me "so, what happens if someone tries to do something" when two little foreign girls (couldn't catch the accents well from their parents) jumped on the side portion of the Tomb. The guardsman saw it coming, because he was already moving to attention before their feet landed. "GET OFF THE TOMB!" was his exclamation, and then as they scampered off, a return to his former position.
Remarkably, there were a LOT Of pictures of their boots, and frm their boots up towards the sky. I didn't quite get it, but the whole group of tourists seemed to be loving it.
The bagpiper accompanying the march up to the change was also a superbly nice touch. Not a lot of people around, but as a taxpayer Im certainly happy to see my 0.002 portion going towards it!
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Hehe, +1 ;DRecce By Death said:
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I've done several shifts at the tomb. We get a lot of tourists that want to take pictures that I quite frankly don't feel are appropriate for that setting. People have come up next to me and posed as they would at Rideau Hall. It's fine there, but I find that at the Tomb of the Unknown Soldier, things like hugging the Guards, putting an arm around them, or crotch-grabbing (their own, not the Guards'...), which actually happened, is extremely disrespectful. I know that at Arlington, that sort of stuff doesn't fly.
Then there's the tomb itself. Some people seem to think that standing ON TOP OF THE TOMB (!!!) would make a great photo-op. It's the job of the orderly in 3Bs to make sure that people respect the tomb, but sometimes s/he may not catch it, or may be swamped. In that case, I typically shout "DO NOT STAND ON THE TOMB OF THE UNKNOWN SOLDIER!" and watch them flee/scream/wet themselves. While conversing with tourists during a security shift in 3Bs, I've become painfully aware that most people didn't even know there was someone buried there...
Then there's the tomb itself. Some people seem to think that standing ON TOP OF THE TOMB (!!!) would make a great photo-op. It's the job of the orderly in 3Bs to make sure that people respect the tomb, but sometimes s/he may not catch it, or may be swamped. In that case, I typically shout "DO NOT STAND ON THE TOMB OF THE UNKNOWN SOLDIER!" and watch them flee/scream/wet themselves. While conversing with tourists during a security shift in 3Bs, I've become painfully aware that most people didn't even know there was someone buried there...
Yeah, the Corporal in 3s looked a little ashamed that he hadn't caught it... he wasn't exactly busy.
Can the security shift member not go over and ask people to refrain from the inappropriate photo taking?
I would actually kind of prefer to see some sort of cordon setup around the tomb.... something white and simple would ensure people realized it wasn't something to climb on.... or would this be contrary to tradition or disrespectful?
The tourists didn't even seem freaked out about the command. The girls scampered off, but the parents seemed to think it was funny. Had they spoken English I probably would have tried to explain to them the significance, but alas....
Can the security shift member not go over and ask people to refrain from the inappropriate photo taking?
I would actually kind of prefer to see some sort of cordon setup around the tomb.... something white and simple would ensure people realized it wasn't something to climb on.... or would this be contrary to tradition or disrespectful?
The tourists didn't even seem freaked out about the command. The girls scampered off, but the parents seemed to think it was funny. Had they spoken English I probably would have tried to explain to them the significance, but alas....
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Meridian said:
The security member is in a bit of a tricky spot. Unless something is blatantly wrong, he's not supposed to step up on the elevated area where the tomb is. By the time the tourist is done his crotch-grab shot, it's too late. When we started this tasking, we were originally told to keep people off the carpet that the Guards stand on, but it's come down from higher up that we're to relax a bit...
A cordon? That would be too easy!
Right now the only thing that's set in place is a very subtle carving in the stone floor that says "Please treat this tomb of an unknown soldier with respect." A lot of the tourists that come to see it have little to no grasp of English. So far I've got a bit of practice on my German, and I've picked up a bit of Spanish and Italian.
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geo said:
Technically, the Guards can call a beat to scare people away - tapping the rifle butt on the ground signals the sentries to take a pace forward, shoulder arms, outwards turn, march 9 paces out, 9 paces in. We like to skip that, sometimes...
A chain is actually a great idea, though. Though the first time I read your post, my mind was reading what it wanted to see, and I ended up with "spiked ball on chain" somehow. It would be just as effective
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It's really too bad that the msg for request for troops didn't reach out here to the West. I would've loved to have gone on a tour of duty there. It would've been a great honour.
They really should open it up to Tri-Service. Representing the CF and its members respects to the Unknown Soldier.
They really should open it up to Tri-Service. Representing the CF and its members respects to the Unknown Soldier.
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Medtech...
This thing was thrown together at the last minute and the task given to the people who already bring you the Ceremonial Guard.
I am convinced that, given time, the handling of this task will evolve towards something like what you suggest.
This thing was thrown together at the last minute and the task given to the people who already bring you the Ceremonial Guard.
I am convinced that, given time, the handling of this task will evolve towards something like what you suggest.
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Pte D. Krystal said:Technically, the Guards can call a beat to scare people away - tapping the rifle butt on the ground signals the sentries to take a pace forward, shoulder arms, outwards turn, march 9 paces out, 9 paces in. We like to skip that, sometimes...
A chain is actually a great idea, though. Though the first time I read your post, my mind was reading what it wanted to see, and I ended up with "spiked ball on chain" somehow. It would be just as effective
I was at the Tomb last week and likewise, was quite impressed. The Change of the Guard is quite an impressive ceremony, in an entirely different way than the Changing of the Guard on the Hill. The piper is a great touch.
I agree that four stanchions and a velvet (not the regular airport style nylon ribbon that retracts into the stanchion tho') rope around the tomb would do a great deal to keep people off, as would some appropriate signage. The idea of calling a beat is also a good one. To see the Guards do that on the quarter and half hours would be a nice touch and give the tourists something to see, as well as show off the drill skills.
Perhaps the Guards could also do "Remove yourself from the Tomb" in both English and French. I noted that the Change commands alternated languages.
Well done.
IN order to stop the goofy " take my picture while I grab my crotch " stuff and the actual disrespect of having kids climb on the Tomb, how about this........A cordon that completely surrounds both the tomb and the area where the sentries ars standing, with a removable section in it to march on and off the sentries ?
The other CG members who are there need to be MUCH more proactive regarding the behaviour of the tourists.
Don't be afraid to take action if they are behaviing in a disrespectful way, regardless of their ability to understand English or French. A loudly speoken NO !!! is univesrsally understood, while pointing at the offender. Follow that up with a phamflet that is multi lingual that describes the War Memorial and the Tomb, as being sacred ground in this country. In fact may be the National Capital Commission should create a "information kisosk" off to the side, near the benches, that would do the same thing, with a multi langauge feature, that informs the visitors about the site.
JIm B. Toronto.
The other CG members who are there need to be MUCH more proactive regarding the behaviour of the tourists.
Don't be afraid to take action if they are behaviing in a disrespectful way, regardless of their ability to understand English or French. A loudly speoken NO !!! is univesrsally understood, while pointing at the offender. Follow that up with a phamflet that is multi lingual that describes the War Memorial and the Tomb, as being sacred ground in this country. In fact may be the National Capital Commission should create a "information kisosk" off to the side, near the benches, that would do the same thing, with a multi langauge feature, that informs the visitors about the site.
JIm B. Toronto.
would be really effective IMO.
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A permanent wreath and/or a cordon would be great. Even just a sign that says to be respectful of the site/stay off the tomb in several languages could work, seeing as the only thing to that effect right now is actually carved into the stone next to the tomb, in only English and French.
As to the bilingual orders, it's nice, but who knows how long that will last? There's a lot of speculation that next year or the year after Ceremonial Guard will become a GGFG tasking, and then there's a good chance the French commands will disappear along with the CGG contingent.
The piper is great, I agree. They don't have a lot of time to play many decent marches on the 150m from the stairs at Elgin and Wellington to the tomb, but on the first posting and last relief of the day, the piper plays Flowers of the Forest while the Guards present arms to the monument.
And, as for this becoming an Army-wide/CF-wide tasking, I'd be all for it (God knows I'd be more comfortable wearing my kilt and balmoral than scarlet tunic and bearskin on sentry) but as Geo said, this was thrown together pretty fast, apparently coming down from the CDS himself. It's a similar situation as to when they sent the Guards to the G8 summit a few years back, and the Loyal Eddies got a bit riled up - CG is a formed ceremonial unit that has experience doing this sort of thing. As time goes by, things will surely change.
As to the bilingual orders, it's nice, but who knows how long that will last? There's a lot of speculation that next year or the year after Ceremonial Guard will become a GGFG tasking, and then there's a good chance the French commands will disappear along with the CGG contingent.
The piper is great, I agree. They don't have a lot of time to play many decent marches on the 150m from the stairs at Elgin and Wellington to the tomb, but on the first posting and last relief of the day, the piper plays Flowers of the Forest while the Guards present arms to the monument.
And, as for this becoming an Army-wide/CF-wide tasking, I'd be all for it (God knows I'd be more comfortable wearing my kilt and balmoral than scarlet tunic and bearskin on sentry) but as Geo said, this was thrown together pretty fast, apparently coming down from the CDS himself. It's a similar situation as to when they sent the Guards to the G8 summit a few years back, and the Loyal Eddies got a bit riled up - CG is a formed ceremonial unit that has experience doing this sort of thing. As time goes by, things will surely change.
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Pte D. Krystal said:
Not likely at all that bilingual drill will disappear. As long as there is a national tasking in the National Capital, drill will continue in both official languages.
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CG is a formed ceremonial unit that has experience doing this sort of thing.
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Er, no. The CG is a task, not a unit. A unit is defined by Ministerial direction on organization (IAW NDA 17 http://laws.justice.gc.ca/en/showdoc/cs/N-5/bo-ga:l_II-gb:s_17//en#anchorbo-ga:l_II-gb:s_17); there is no Ministerial Organizational Order extant for the Ceremonial Guard. However, as I once learned, attempting to convince senior personnel involved with the CG that it isn't a unit is a task akin to hitting one's head against a brick wall repeatedly, only somewhat less satisfying and much less productive. Infantry officers are nothing if not dogged in their beliefs...
