CF-188 Hornet, Canada's jet fighter

[dimsum]

All true

But is a drone going to be closer in cost to and F35 or to a Harpoon?

100 MUSD or 1 MUSD?

I'm betting on the low end of the scale. 2-5 ?

It depends on a bunch of things.

Airframe is just one - there's data bandwidth (which depends if you're using SATCOM or line of sight) cost, and whether there is a ground control station (unlikely for the Kratos ones, so the crewed aircraft have to control it somehow, even if just to give directions to follow it).

Probably other costs too that don't come up for traditional aircraft.

So, while the aircraft itself may be cheap(er), adding those other costs will boost the price per unit.

How much? No idea.

 

[Kirkhill]

Kirkhill, I would not take any Defence Contractor’s press release on cost at face value…

Especially if Canadian governments are involved?

 

[dimsum]

Especially if Canadian governments are involved?

Any govt.

 

[Kirkhill]

Any govt.

I think Canada operates on a different wavelength to Ukraine and Turkey, or even Denmark and Sweden.

 

[SupersonicMax]

Don't even need to do that. The MQ-9A Reaper has already successfully test-fired A2A missiles.

(A2A = Air to Air)

Completely spitballing here, but it's not a huge leap to put an A2A radar and load it up as a "missile truck" to complement crewed fighters, or use as a "defensive barrier". Probably more stuff too but those are the two A2A roles off the top of my head.

It is a fairly big leap actually, especially given the power requirement of modern radars and required integration (one thing I learned in flight test is to never underestimate how much of your time and money integration takes, and yet, it’ll still be sub optimal). Shooting an AIM-9 is one thing. Shooting AMRAAMs is an entirely different ball game.

 

[Kirkhill]

It is a fairly big leap actually, especially given the power requirement of modern radars and required integration (one thing I learned in flight test is to never underestimate how much of your time and money integration takes, and yet, it’ll still be sub optimal). Shooting an AIM-9 is one thing. Shooting AMRAAMs is an entirely different ball game.

I guess I was focusing on the Air to Ground mission rather than the A2A mission.

That would cover Interdiction and Strike, SEAD and Close Air Support missions and leave the Air to Air missions to the manned aircraft.

 

[dimsum]

I guess I was focusing on the Air to Ground mission rather than the A2A mission.

That would cover Interdiction and Strike, SEAD and Close Air Support missions and leave the Air to Air missions to the manned aircraft.

Reapers, etc already do the A2G mission. It won't be a big jump for the Kratos aircraft, etc.

Last I read (a while back), the whole "Loyal Wingman" project was to have an RPA wingman for both A2G and A2A missions. So the intent is not just having manned aircraft do A2A.

 

[Kirkhill]

Reapers, etc already do the A2G mission. It won't be a big jump for the Kratos aircraft, etc.

Last I read (a while back), the whole "Loyal Wingman" project was to have an RPA wingman for both A2G and A2A missions. So the intent is not just having manned aircraft do A2A.

Seen.

I think I also saw something to the effect that the Brits have kicked their Loyal Wingman programme into the long grass on the grounds that they believe there are now cheaper ways to achieve their goals without the high-end AI aircraft.

UK walks away from Project Mosquito loyal wingman drone development

The Royal Air Force has decided to axe the project to develop a loyal wingman prototype.

defbrief.com

 

[MTShaw]

FYI, the more modern reaper is the MQ-9B.

MQ-9B SkyGuardian

MQ-9B SkyGuardian is the next generation of remotely piloted aircraft systems (RPAS), delivering persistent intelligence, surveillance, and reconnaissance (ISR) around the globe.

www.ga-asi.com

This is the version that will be used by our allies and the front runner for our RPAS program.

Remotely Piloted Aircraft System (RPAS) - Canada.ca

This project will acquire a medium altitude and armed Remotely Piloted Aircraft System along with associated equipment, weapons, infrastructure and in-service sustainment capability that will support up to three concurrent lines of operation, domestic or international. This project supports...

www.canada.ca

 

[dimsum]

Seen.

I think I also saw something to the effect that the Brits have kicked their Loyal Wingman programme into the long grass on the grounds that they believe there are now cheaper ways to achieve their goals without the high-end AI aircraft.

UK walks away from Project Mosquito loyal wingman drone development

The Royal Air Force has decided to axe the project to develop a loyal wingman prototype.

defbrief.com

The RAAF and Boeing's MQ-28A Ghost Bat is still going strong (I think)

What we know so far about Australia’s Loyal Wingman, the

Boeing’s MQ-28A Ghost Bat is tipped to be a real game-changer in the field of airpower projection. AirForces Monthly explores the asset’s development and testing

www.key.aero

 

[Kirkhill]

The RAAF and Boeing's MQ-28A Ghost Bat is still going strong (I think)

What we know so far about Australia’s Loyal Wingman, the

Boeing’s MQ-28A Ghost Bat is tipped to be a real game-changer in the field of airpower projection. AirForces Monthly explores the asset’s development and testing

www.key.aero

That seems like a reasonable thing to do. From the RAF perspective. Let the Aussies proceed down that path and continue with observer status and see what eventuates. It costs the RAF nothing and allows them to spend their shillings on nearer term possibilities that can integrate into the existing fleet and potentially be integrated into whatever the Aussies and the Yanks come up with.

 

[Kirkhill]

Turkish airframe with Ukrainian engines.

https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/comments/wydgxk

 

[OceanBonfire]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1579456717745635329

 

[dimsum]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1579456717745635329

Isn't that what they do every time they deploy outside a fighter base or QRA...?

 

[Good2Golf]

Isn't that what they do every time they deploy outside a fighter base or QRA...?

I think they meant to say…”every time they operate from runways that the Government is too cheap to lengthen to let them land normally without crashing off the end.”

 

[SeaKingTacco]

I think they meant to say…”every time they operate from runways that the Government is too cheap to lengthen to let them land normally without crashing off the end.”

It is fine, as long as the brakes are good…or the runway isn’t icy….

 

[Good2Golf]

It is fine, as long as the brakes are good…or the runway isn’t icy….

For 11 out of 366 days…

 

[SeaKingTacco]

For 11 out of 366 days…
View attachment 74156

11 is alot, right?

 

[Good2Golf]

11 is alot, right?

Statistically more than normal!

 

[Kirkhill]

Silly question time - following on from the FOL discussion on the Ukraine - Superthread.

1 If an F35 takes off and immediately tanks up over its home base (Cold Lake for example), once it has reached altitude, how much additional range will the F35 gain?

2 If the tanker, once the F35 leaves the home base area on its mission, pursues the F35 at best speed, shortening the distance the F35 has to fly to gas up, how much additional range will the F35 gain?

3 Could a PQ or other CMMA be outfitted with a buddy-pack type system to top off an F35 detailed to assist it, once the F35 arrives at the P8s station?

My sense is that some combination of COAs 1 and 2, with or without the tankers landing at the FOLs, could give the F35s significant coverage, especially when only carrying internal stores.