CF advertising at school

[Harris]

Unfortunately, targeting older, wiser recruits isn't the answer either.  Many of these people have already gotten "real" jobs, have started families, etc... and are not interested in another part time job (at least I suspect that's how they see a Reserve Job).  IMHO we need to get people from both high school and from other, later walks of life.  But the numbers to only target one group just aren't there.  Many Units are having a hard time filling the holes created by people retiring, transferring to the Regular Force, or just getting out for various reasons.  I firmly believe that the Forces will not be able to meet the 8000 additional pers requirements and also fill the posns from departing members.  We have to target everybody who can pass the necessary tests if we want to increase the numbers.  There needs to be more advertising, in more walks of life if we ever want to reach these goals.  Lets be realistic, most people don't want to be in the military as it is seen as a poor career choice.  The public needs to be educated about what the military really does vice what Hollywood chooses to show on the big screen.

 

[DSB]

"  The public needs to be educated about what the military really does vice what Hollywood chooses to show on the big screen.  "


This sounds like the meat of the issue to me.  Present the reality and see who bites into that.  SO many of these kids coming in just have no idea.

We live and learn i suppose.

DSB

 

[Matt-Z]

As a Sargent once told me.... "we are in the business of two things, killing people and saving live"  Sometimes you have to do one to do the other... and are these people saying that saving lives is immoral too? It only takes a single person with an AK 47 and a single clip to kill 30 people (if could actually aim with it).... should we allow them to do this just because stopping him could possibly mean taking his life?

personally I'm very happy that my school encourages any student to look into the CF as a career possibility. We support advertisement and allow frequent visits from various regiments.... Being a student myself going through my BMQ and SQ I am extremely gratefull for the opportunity's that the CF is giving me and it pains me to see that Other kids are not being informed about the many great benefits the CF has to offer.

 

[Pte. Bloggins]

I know tonnes of people get in via highschool recruitment, co-ops and such.   I still feel targeting young sheep can be problematic.   Why not target upperclassmen?   People with the maturity and life experience to really understand the importance of their roles?  

Because people who have been in university sometimes tend to acquire this attitude that they know better then much of society, because they have this higher level of education. (I say this as a first-year university student, based on what I've seen in my slight experience at university.) Such people don't always take too kindly to being at the bottom of the totem pole, having to take orders from others. They might be more suited to be recruited as officers, where they would have the opportunity of leadership and feeling like they could but their learned skills to some use.

Kids in high school might not know what they want yet, true, but trying out a part-time gig as a reservist might be a great way for them to find out what it is they want. Hey, it might be a long-term career in the military, who knows?

(This is of course, just my 2 cents.)

 

[The_Falcon]

It should also be noted that what you do typically in the military is a young persons job (in terms of the physical requirements, and if you happened to get injured or develop problems, young people general heal quicker).  In terms  of changing peoples preconceived notions about what the military is like, well that is where competent recruiting comes in.  The recruiting needs to accurately portay what we do.  And if recruiters aren't doing that they need to be replaced.  As for troops who are immature etc., that is where the training failed not the recruiting.  Recruiting is done to find potenial soldiers, the onus of blame for sub-standard soldiers should fall on the training establishment.  It is thier job to turn the immature civy into a mature and compentent SOLDIER.

 

[Canuck_25]

  I firmlay believe that the Forces will not be able to meet the 8000 additional pers requirements and also fill the posns from departing members.  

Well, with a country of 30 million people, that number is pretty small. I think the CF should visit small deprived communities like mine to recruit people. Thats what the yanks do, they recruit rural people with no future.

 

[pbi]

I think the army would be better served by recruiting at job fairs, trade shows, and perhaps gearing recruitment to slightly older groups

No! No! We are already way too old as a force now, and aging out rapidly. The recent decision to allow people to stay until 60 was, IMHO, a terrible mistake in a force as small as ours: it practically guarantees stagnation that will ripple through an already glacial promotion system, causing further attrition and encouraging the timeservers.
While our society may produce a few (and I stress "a few"") people who are fitter and   more capable at an older age, this is IMHO not statistically enough to offset the aging process we are confronting. Armies have proven throughout history that an 18 year old can be trained to be a highly effective  soldier. In the Army, anyway, we need a good supply of young, keen, fit and aggressive people for the types of situations we are likely to face. High schools and colleges are exactly where we need to be. Job fairs, etc are fine but IMHO are not likely to attract either the quantity or the quality that we need to keep our Army, especially our Combat Arms, vital and healthy.

Cheers.

 

[ArmyRick]

PBI is quite correct IMO. I have seen a few poor results of this stay in until 60 business. It won't be the JR NCM in Battalions or Regiments staying around that long (Those are the bodies we truly need). They get too exhausted and worn out.
It will be some higher ranking pers (Officer and NCM) hanging around in some RSS or HQ type jobs and they will probably cling to these postings for dear life.
I don't mean this as disrespect for anyone in said jobs. Just a few individuals.

There is one SGT in a HQ job I know (no names, no pack drill) of who has been at this posting for 13 years and hasn't been deployed or on operations once.

 

[Harris]

"Well, with a country of 30 million people, that number is pretty small. I think the CF should visit small deprived communities like mine to recruit people. Thats what the yanks do, they recruit rural people with no future."

The problem with this approach is the Infrastructure and/or extra costs associated with getting people from distant communities.  It is far more cost effective to recruit from major centres.  Less transport, time needed to do things etc...

I'm not saying its right, but it is the way things are looked at.

 

[pbi]

IIRC the average age of British Army General Officers at the start of WWI was 70. We know (anecdotally, at least...) of the hidebound, conservative "fox-hunting" mentality of too great a proportion of the British Army officer cadre during much of that war. You are right, ArmyRick: the older folks will pile up at the top end (if only because people lower down will quit in frustration...). The results, IMHO could be not only a strangulation of the promotion system that is essential to a vital, healthy force, but also a collection of narrow-minded old codgers who have survived as long as they have by keeping their heads down, or by avoiding any dangerous duties. Bad news in any force: disastrous in an Army as tiny as ours.

Cheers.

 

[Korus]

Because people who have been in university sometimes tend to acquire this attitude that they know better then much of society, because they have this higher level of education. (I say this as a first-year university student, based on what I've seen in my slight experience at university.) Such people don't always take too kindly to being at the bottom of the totem pole, having to take orders from others. They might be more suited to be recruited as officers, where they would have the opportunity of leadership and feeling like they could but their learned skills to some use.

I've been in University for 4 years now, and every day I notice that attitude more and more amongst university students (not saying that it's icnreasing, just that I notice it more). Sometimes it's an interesting line to walk being a soldier amongst the anti-everything-and-I-don't-know-why crowd at university. I finish in my degree in 47 days, and when discussing plans for the future with other uni students that I know, It comes up that I'm looking into deployment overseas with the Army. The usual response is "why would you want to risk your life for that?", "Are you suicidal?" or "So you want to kill people?". But I guess that goes with the ground.

As for recruiting them as officers because they don't enjoy being at the bottom of a totem pole, I don't agree with that. IMHO, an officer with a "I'm higher and better than my NCMs" attitude would NOT gain the respect of his/her troops, and would not be very effective at all.

 

[Pte. Bloggins]

As for recruiting them as officers because they don't enjoy being at the bottom of a totem pole, I don't agree with that. IMHO, an officer with a "I'm higher and better than my NCMs" attitude would NOT gain the respect of his/her troops, and would not be very effective at all.

Oh, I'm not suggesting this would be effective, I'm suggesting this is what ends up happenning sometimes. I mean, officers need a degree to become officers, don't they, and these kind of types might end up being recruited whether we like it or not. Not saying all or even the majority of officers are like this, but I'm sure everyone's encountered the odd one at some point in their career.

 

[Korus]

I guess it's just a case of both of us arguing the same point, but differently. 

Cheers

 

[Pte. Bloggins]

Basically, yes.  ;D

 

[PJ D-Dog]

In 1993, I was conducting recruiting activities at a local high school in rural central New Brunswick.  Our reserve unit had a push on for more members and we were visiting schools across our area of responsibility.

At one school, we set up a lunch hour display in the hallway and the interest shown by the students was marginal.  A female student approached our display.  She was roughly 17, dressed in black from head to toe.  She wore a string around her neck and attached to the end of it was a wire cage with a rock inside.  Her form fitting uniform-like outfit revealed that she was very obviously pregnant.

She came up to us and before we could give her any type of greeting, she immediate spouted out that we were baby killers.  All she said for the first 10 seconds was "baby killers" in a whinny voice ensuring that she drew out every syllable in "kil-lers".  I greeted her professionally and asked how she knew we were baby killers and pointed out that I had never killed anything in the line of duty.  As I tried to give her the safety answer with the condom on top, my recruiting officer stepped in and agreed with her that we were in fact baby killers.  This, of course, got her attention.  He explained that he was just living up to the macho, killing machine stereotype that most ill informed civilians had of the military.  As the discussion turned into an argument, he politely explained to her that our job as soldiers was to protect her right of freedom of expression that permitted her to call us baby killers, even if it was untrue.  She paused and replied: "uh...uh...baby killers".

At another school, we were pelted with snow balls at a spring outdoor equipment display.  Rather than complain, the officer in charge decided to just leave.

There is definitely a dire need to advertise in the public school system.  Unfortunately, recruiters have not always been able to foster a good working relationship with school staff in order to gain access to those students who would like to join the military.  Out of the five high schools in our region, I had two who cooperated fully with us and taught the virtues of military service to their students.  Most of the guidance counselors I dealt with were very obviously anti-war, anti-military pro green peace and very much living in a peace-nik dream world.  It is unfortunate but the schools are not teaching to be open minded.  Instead, they are dictating opinion and lean entirely too much to the left.  When green peace posters have more precedence on the wall than CF recruiting posters, then there is a problem.

Unfortunately, the CO of regiments or recruiting stations don't care to get involved in political debates with schools and would just rather not deal with them instead of fixing the situation.  They are all too interested in protecting their careers.

My Marine recruiting buddies tell me they have some of the same problems with smaller schools.  The difference, however, lies in the fact that the CO of the recruiting station has no problems in visiting a difficult school to try and set them straight and show the administration that it is in their interest to support our recruiting activities.  By law, US public school have to give up a copy of the graduating class roster to the recruiting office or they could loose federal funding for their school.  It's a case of "you rub my back, and I won't file a complaint with the government and cut off your funding so you can keep your job".

PJ D-Dog

 

[atticus]

By law, US public school have to give up a copy of the graduating class roster to the recruiting office or they could loose federal funding for their school.  It's a case of "you rub my back, and I won't file a complaint with the government and cut off your funding so you can keep your job".

Isn't that because the US has a draft and not because the recruiting officers want to harrass the graduating students?

 

[PJ D-Dog]

Isn't that because the US has a draft and not because the recruiting officers want to harrass the graduating students?

There hasn't been a draft in the US since the early 1970s during the Vietnam war.  The draft is not based on the high school gradution list.  It is based on year of birth.  It there was a draft today, there would be a lottery based on a birth year.  The lottery would determin who would be drafted based on what month they were bron in that given year.  There is more to it than that but that's the draft in a nut shell.

I would not call recruiting "harrassment".  They use aggressive sales techniques to find new applicants.  There are two fundamental differences in how the CF recruits and how the Marines recruit.  The CF puts itself out there (more or less) in order to ATTRACT prospective recruits.  We go out there and FIND prospective recruits.  In many cases, young people are two timid to actually walk into a recruiting office but if you ask them if they are interested, then it often becomes a different story.  Some people would have never joined if it were not for a recruiter asking them and then providing accurate information on which to make an informed decision as opposed to wondering and getting all sorts of assumptions from people who just don't know.  Hope that answers your question.

PJ

 

[TCBF]

"Her form fitting uniform-like outfit revealed that she was very obviously pregnant."

I didn't do it.

;D

Tom

 

[atticus]

There hasn't been a draft in the US since the early 1970s during the Vietnam war.  The draft is not based on the high school gradution list.  It is based on year of birth.  It there was a draft today, there would be a lottery based on a birth year.  The lottery would determin who would be drafted based on what month they were bron in that given year.  There is more to it than that but that's the draft in a nut shell.

I would not call recruiting "harrassment".  They use aggressive sales techniques to find new applicants.

Oh I thought that there was still the draft. I just thought it was still around becuase I went on a tour in Europe and there was a large group of Americans from Lousiana on the tour, and talking to them I was under the impression that there was still a draft, where all males when they reach a certain age after graduation they have to tell the gov't where they are in case of a draft.

I didn't mean to call recruiting harrassment, I thought it was odd how the schools give a list of the graduates for the recruiters to use. Do they call certain students up at home and ask the to join the Marines? What would the list of graduates be used for?

 

[PJ D-Dog]

Oh I thought that there was still the draft. I just thought it was still around becuase I went on a tour in Europe and there was a large group of Americans from Lousiana on the tour, and talking to them I was under the impression that there was still a draft, where all males when they reach a certain age after graduation they have to tell the gov't where they are in case of a draft.

It's called selective service.  After the draft was over, there was a need for a pool of names just in case there was a shortage but not large enough to justify a draft, then you could be called up.  That system is still in place.

I didn't mean to call recruiting harrassment, I thought it was odd how the schools give a list of the graduates for the recruiters to use. Do they call certain students up at home and ask the to join the Marines? What would the list of graduates be used for?

The list is used for recruiting.  They call them all up and ask if they are interested in joining.  Surprisingly, you can use these lists up to two years after they graduate as some fall on hard times and can't get work and don't really consider the military until it is mentioned to them.

PJ D-Dog