CH-148 Cyclone Progress

[Good2Golf]

Nope, we (the Govt) got sold deliberately selected for political reasons an aircraft that wasn't the EH-101, the byproduct of which was getting an aircraft that existed on paper....and that we're the only user/buyer in the world for....

Orphan fleet.  Developed specifically for us.

Some thoughts on that, NS, but the end result was the same.

Regards
G2G

 

[Eye In The Sky]

We got briefed recently on how the MH world is transitioning from one platform to the other, maintainers and aircrew.  I feel for them, on both coasts.    They are going full tilt to maintain Dets with the 124 while also converting to the 148, and there is definitely some extra ass pain happening.  Definitely challenging times for the MH community.

 

[Loachman]

Every flying community goes through this over time. It is seldom easy.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

We got briefed recently on how the MH world is transitioning from one platform to the other, maintainers and aircrew.  I feel for them, on both coasts.    They are going full tilt to maintain Dets with the 124 while also converting to the 148, and there is definitely some extra *** pain happening.  Definitely challenging times for the MH community.

I would have thought they concentrate one airframe on one coast and the other on the other coast, until you have enough to start forming 2 fleets of the new machine on each coast?

 

[Humphrey Bogart]

I would have thought they concentrate one airframe on one coast and the other on the other coast, until you have enough to start forming 2 fleets of the new machine on each coast?

They probably can't risk flying the Seakings across the country and the potential for multiple breakdowns in the process.  ;D

 

[SeaKingTacco]

They probably can't risk flying the Seakings across the country and the potential for multiple breakdowns in the process.  ;D

We can, and do, routinely.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

I would have thought they concentrate one airframe on one coast and the other on the other coast, until you have enough to start forming 2 fleets of the new machine on each coast?

Something like that, ya.  Its not my community so I don't think I should be stating details but...from what I can gather, they're a REAL busy bunch.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Good article giving the current status of the aircraft

https://www.verticalmag.com/news/future-forward/

 

[Eye In The Sky]

Here's an even better one!  8)

https://www.skiesmag.com/news/future-forward/

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Would this be something we would consider for our Cyclones? http://www.defensenews.com/articles/france-successfully-fires-sea-venom-missile

PARIS — France successfully fired on June 21 for the first time the anti-navire léger, also dubbed Sea Venom, a helicopter-borne anti-ship missile, the French armed forces ministry said.

France and Britain are developing and building the ANL/Sea Venom in a bilateral program under the Lancaster house defense cooperation treaty.

This was the first development firing of the ANL on the Mediterranean missile test center of the Direction Générale de l'Armement, the French armed forces ministry said in a July 4 statement. The missile, which can operate in fire-and-forget mode and also with an operator in the loop, was fired from a Panther test bed helicopter flown by the DGA.

The missile will replace the British Sea Skua and French AS15TT anti-ship weapons, and is due to be fitted on the Royal Navy’s AW159 Wildcat and the French Navy’s Hélicoptère Interarmées Léger, MBDA said in a statement.

 

[SeaKingTacco]

I believe the intent later on is to introduce some form of air to surface weapon with Cyclone.

 

[Underway]

With the VDQ getting ready to be first to deploy with a Cyclone embarked here's a well written article/initerview regarding where we are WRT the Cyclone project and including some of the differences in how we operate a MH vice our allies.

http://www.sldinfo.com/canada-and-north-atlantic-defense-the-coming-of-the-cyclone/

Maybe some of our less rotary challenged members could elaborate for us on the basic doctrine for helo usage in this case (ie retasking etc...) and how it differs from how other nations.

 

[Sub_Guy]

With the VDQ getting ready to be first to deploy with a Cyclone embarked

I didn’t think we had full mission capable Cyclones with fully trained aircrew. 

 

[SeaKingTacco]

With the VDQ getting ready to be first to deploy with a Cyclone embarked here's a well written article/initerview regarding where we are WRT the Cyclone project and including some of the differences in how we operate a MH vice our allies.

http://www.sldinfo.com/canada-and-north-atlantic-defense-the-coming-of-the-cyclone/

Maybe some of our less rotary challenged members could elaborate for us on the basic doctrine for helo usage in this case (ie retasking etc...) and how it differs from how other nations.

With some nations, their helo is literally an extension of the ship and not an independent unit capable of making its own tactical decisions- some of these helos do not possess an ability to process sensor info onboard their own helo and rely on direction from their ship's ops room.. In Canada's case, our Maritime Helicopters have always been employed in such a way that they are capable of making their own tactical decisions (within the established Comd hierarchy of the task group and within ROE, naturally), once they leave the deck.

 

[Underway]

I didn’t think we had full mission capable Cyclones with fully trained aircrew.

VDQ is expected to deploy with a Cyclone next year (summer).  Whether that aircraft will have full or partial capability I don't know.

 

[SeaKingTacco]

VDQ is expected to deploy with a Cyclone next year (summer).  Whether that aircraft will have full or partial capability I don't know.

It will be capable enough...

 

[Eye In The Sky]

That is certainly the goal. It will make crewing the helicopter interesting....

MH is really going to be well-rounded from an "interesting job" point of view.  New ride, new sensors and cap's, and firings GPMGs off ramps and doors has to be more fun than man-handling active's into p-chutes.

The numbers of pro's is going 'up' to being on the MH side...wonder, are ex-LRP types allowed to wear their VPI patches at MH Sqns??  :Tin-Foil-Hat:

We aren't really established for routinely having a 5th crew member onboard.

Not that I can envision a scenario where, routinely, we fly around with a two gun setup.

There could be a semi-convincing argument for having a 'wet' and 'dry' sensor operator instead of just one...maybe in the future?  Then you'd have both guns crewed and the kit covered off.  Not that the AES Op trade is manned for it right now...but in the future...

 

[SeaKingTacco]

MH is really going to be well-rounded from an "interesting job" point of view.  New ride, new sensors and cap's, and firings GPMGs off ramps and doors has to be more fun than man-handling active's into p-chutes.

The numbers of pro's is going 'up' to being on the MH side...wonder, are ex-LRP types allowed to wear their VPI patches at MH Sqns??  :Tin-Foil-Hat:

There could be a semi-convincing argument for having a 'wet' and 'dry' sensor operator instead of just one...maybe in the future?  Then you'd have both guns crewed and the kit covered off.  Not that the AES Op trade is manned for it right now...but in the future...

Many ex-LRP AESOPs wear their VPI patches on MH Sqns.

The problem with a wet and dry sensor op is that there are only two work stations in the back and no room for another.

For better or worse, we are going to have to figure out how to manage the battle with a 4 person crew. Luckily, the helicopter largely flies itself, so one of the pilots can be freed up to also work a sensor.

 

[Sub_Guy]

Am I wrong in my assumption that the ACSO will also be trained in sensor operations? 

The NCM is only there to take the fall when things go south.  :stirpot:

The door gunner on the cyclone will get to see the nice parts of the world, and travel in style!

 

[winnipegoo7]

Luckily, the helicopter largely flies itself, so one of the pilots can be freed up to also work a sensor.

Any guess as to which sensor the pilot would manage? Just curious.