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Civie career after RMC?

Well... Almost not an RMC cadet anymore... 47 Days...  But I still think that way... It's not because we have subsitised education (that we, by the way, pay by giving 5 years to the military after graduation) that we can't take that opportunity for a civilian career after...  I don't see what's wrong with that...

Max
 
Oh well, I'll do what's best for me. I have aspirations in life.  If the CF makes me happy after 7 years (well, it's 7 years after wings for pilots...)  I'll stay if not, I'll go.  Believe me though that I'll do my job the best I can during those mandatory service years...  I'll be loyal to the organisation.  And yes the military is, for me, a scholarship as any I could have gotten if I went to a civilian university.  Free education, free flight training (very good flight training in fact), free flying experience on great planes. 

The CFs is, to my eyes like any other jobs... The day yourmy job doesn't fulfill my requirements (short and medium terms), I'll quit. 

If the CFs weren't not happy about people like me then I don't believe they would make advertisement through publicity and CFRC that they offer a free education.

Max
 
WOW!

After that statement, you ought to read this post and then familiarize yourself with the rest of that topic:  http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/40546/post-361271.html#msg361271
 
The CFs is, to my eyes like any other jobs... The day yourmy job doesn't fulfill my requirements (short and medium terms), I'll quit. 

If the CFs weren't not happy about people like me then I don't believe they would make advertisement through publicity and CFRC that they offer a free education.

Max

Max,

I'm glad to hear that you have the world wired tight... at 22.

On your quick, post MilCol victory lap through the CF as a pilot, do me and everyone else a big favour- stay the hell away from the Maritime Helicopter world.  Based on what I have read so far, you would not like it.  It is too little like a "job" and too much like "a way of life".

Cheers.
 
SeaKingTacco said:
Max,

I'm glad to hear that you have the world wired tight... at 22.

On your quick, post MilCol victory lap through the CF as a pilot, do me and everyone else a big favour- stay the hell away from the Maritime Helicopter world.  Based on what I have read so far, you would not like it.  It is too little like a "job" and too much like "a way of life".

Cheers.

I'll add stay away from LRPA as well. .
 
Just a quick point, so everybody doesn't loose all hope in our primary officer production facility: not all of them are like that. Most, in fact, in my experience here so far, are serious about a career. I have met many "kids" (and I mean no offence, my oldest son is older than most of them. He's still a kid, they're still kids), while on course and at RMC, that I would willingly work for and with. Anytime, anywhere. There are some who will do their mandatory time, take their money (pension) and run, and they are vocal about it. Nothing to be done there.
Our friend Max does have a point though (twisted and unprofessional, it may be). As long as he does his "job" to the utmost of his abilities, as long as he takes his responsibilities as an Officer in the CF, wearing the Queen's Commission, seriously, I will not hunt him down.
As soon as I find out that anyone that he is responsible for suffers from a lack of caring/conviction/whatever, it begins.

I'm just wondering, what were you doing when you swore your Oath/Affirmation? Did you have your fingers crossed? What are you going to do upon Commissioning? Will your scroll, and what is written on it, be just a piece of paper? I hope, over the next few years, that you realize what kind of organization you have joined. And I also hope, that it will come to mean something to you. Max, you have missed the point so badly that I feel kind of sorry for you. But I feel worse for the troops that you will command someday.
 
I really believe in the CF... Believe it or not!  The only thing I say is that I will keep my options opened after my mandatory service.  WIll I quit?  I don't know.  But right now I love the CFs.  Am I dedicated to the CF?  100%.  Am I proud of serving my country?  Prouder than anyone.  Would I do anything else than pilot?  Hell yeah.  I'm not saying that at the least little problem I'll quit. Not at all!  Will I (Do I) have a bad attitude?  No! Do I look forward to a CF career?  Ideally.

All I'm saying is that yes it is possible to consider something else after your mandatory service and it's NOT a crime (otherwise, the CF wouldn't have put those reg in place, like 5 years after grad, 7 years after the wings)

If after 7 years, I'm just not pleased with the way it works, will I quit?  Yeah..  I don't see why someone should stay in an environment he's not confortable in...  But for now, I love it!

Max

 
SupersonicMax said:
Well, RMC educate tomorrow's leader... For Canada in my opinion.. Not only for the military... This opinion is also shared by many people managing RMC too...

Max
Funny... when I was accepted to Queen's, they told me they were educating Canada's leaders of tomorrow.  I'm sure McGill and U of T (as well as every other university) tell their students the exact same thing.  But keep knocking that ring!  :boring:  At least it lets us know who you are. ;)
 
Max,

It's free advice- take it for what it's worth.  Many people in the CF outside of RMC are deeply suspicious of the current product being produced from that august institution.  Your posting style played into the stereotype.  You may want to consider this a small taste of the reaction you are likely to produce in your superiors and subordinates, if you display a "I'm going to use the CF for my benefit alone" attitude, once you hit the flight line.

You are correct- the contract is there for a reason.  You may honourably leave the military at the end of your obligatory service and not feel that you owe the CF anything.  I wish you well, if that is what you choose.  Just be a bit careful on focussing on your exit strategy, when you have barely got your foot in the door.  Portage, Moose Jaw, the OTU and your first Sqn are a long haul if all you care about is that Air Canada job in 2014...

Cheers.
 
Two points I want to address:

Feels better to know that I'm not the only victim of free education syndrome. I'm not going to ask the military to change their recruiting program but it has been quite misleading and perhaps they are not getting the people they want but that's a different discussion. It looks like my out look will be a civilian career. Although I'm sure I will miss the experience of being an officer. I guess in the mean time I'll stick to cadets and watch. Anyway thanks for all the valuable discussion.

Just a quick point, so everybody doesn't loose all hope in our primary officer production facility: not all of them are like that. Most, in fact, in my experience here so far, are serious about a career. I have met many "kids" (and I mean no offence, my oldest son is older than most of them. He's still a kid, they're still kids), while on course and at RMC, that I would willingly work for and with. Anytime, anywhere.

During my 4 years at CMR, I was exposed to a lot of different people and leadership styles. Not only amongst fellow cadets, but also from staff - professors, drill staff, PERI staff, and the College leadership. I got to see people like Col Daigle (CO of the VanDoos at Oka) and Gen Dallaire in action - and some others who didn't distinguish themselves anywhere near as well.

One of the weird little paradoxes I discovered was that cadets who excelled at "playing the game"; the guys who did everything perfectly and by the numbers, usually made crappy officers. The guys who got in trouble, struggled a little (or a lot), "retreads"... for some reason, they made the best practical officers.

Being a retread myself, I have to confess that I'm not entirely without bias here - but it was something I noticed even before I walked the retread path, so I consider it a valid observation (if anything, it's something I try to live up to, not something I assume is universally true)

In my *cough* graduating class, there were maybe a dozen people who I would follow without hesitation, anywhere, without question. There were another dozen who I'd happily follow out of a sense of morbid curiosity and latent schadenfreude, and the rest were grey men who probably did their time and got out without anybody ever noticing one way or the other. Of those I'd've followed anywhere, about 2/3rds were retreads.

That's not to say that these guys were saints... one of the best personal leaders I've ever known, a guy so steeped in the military ethos that he was almost a caricature, and hyper-competent, every once and a while he'd tap-dance all over his own genitals by doing something so what-were-you-THINKING stupid... And my own career progression is not without adding some bootprints to my own John Thomas.....

But the point I'm making is that yes, RMC can and does produce effective leaders - but they are (sadly) rare. And I think that the ratio of good ones to grey men could be enormously increased with some truth in recruiting and some better councilling early on in their careers. If I could go back in time and 'splain some things to my 17-year-old-dumbass self... well who knows - but I THINK some unpleasant things could have been avoided, and the army would have gotten a much more effective soldier in the process.

But I also want to point something else out - my membership in the Canadian Forces Bizarre Career Path Club has actually done me, personally, a great deal of good. It was a HELL of a way to get here... but I learned a lot along the way and I think I'm a better officer for it. So if you really DO hear the call of leadership, if you really DO want to become an officer, don't let early setbacks dissuade you from your path. Never, ever, ever give up. Persistence in the face of extreme adversity is a core attribute of a successfull officer. At the end of the day, it is all about getting the mission accomplished No Matter What, about never ever throwing in the towel and conceding the enemy his victory. If you won't do that with your own life, how can we expect you to do that in the field?

DG
 
Funny, the rest of your posts are well written and articulate.  When you get picked up for piss-poor English, it is a language barrier.  I don't think so...whether French is your first language or not.  You are perfectly competent in English.
 
TACCO, I understand your point and I'm not looking for Air Canada at all or any other civilian companies...  Don't think I'm thinking about leaving right now, no way, I wouldn't for anything.  That's the best job ever for me right now.  And I look forward to anything in the future with the CFs.  

But if sometimes in the future, I'm just not happy anymore as a military I'll quit.  And I think it would be better that way for the CFs and for me!  It's like a couple.. The day you're not happy with each other, you break up!!  

But as I said, I love the CFs right now, especially with all the new policies and tought at the higher levels that came up.  I really love the direction the CFs and the AF are going right now.

scoutfinch :  sincerly, that's the way I would write it.  I'm really not perfect in English and I can't write everything correctly (well, even in French).  A proof to that, my language profile is CCC, not EEE...

Max
 
Well, kudos to you Max.  For the most part, you write very well in English.  Many people would be envious of your second language skills.  Keep up the good work and I apologize for jumping on you. 

SF
 
Max, je vous donnerai un peu de conseil gratuit afin de faciliter la croissance de votre carriere au futur:

...perhaps you should balance your publicly voiced thoughts of, "if I don't like the CF in the future. I'll leave" [which, as SeaKingTacco notes, is contractually fair game] with, "on the other hand, I may find that I enjoy serving my country so much, that I choose to continue my service!"  This will make your views on the future appear a bit more sincere and people will not be inclined to think that you are an opportunist (which is something that sets of warning bells for folks at all levels of the Chain of Command; subordinates, peers and superiors alike.)

Au plaisir,
Duey
 
I have to speak up for Max here. I know him a little bit as I did Prep year with him and a summer of OJT in Bagtown as well. One thing I should point out, and hopefully I don't offend you Max, is that after Prep Year Max decided to leave ROTP. He did a year of CEGEP and then went back to RMC as a first year. This is how I ended up a year ahead of him. But the fact that he returned to ROTP after having taken a year to think about it shows his dedication to the CF. He wasn't ready for it during Prep year, so who cares. He took a year off, thought about it, and got back in. And I can say that Max is dedicated to the CF and becoming a Pilot.

As a side note, his english is MUCH better than my french even after living in Bagotville for the past year.

46 DTG Max. Congrats and have fun on your OJT.
 
Duey, merci pour le mot en français!

Yeah maybe my posts seems to be a bit negative.  And you are probably right saying that I should say the positive side of things for good publicity!  The thing is that I love beeing in the military right now.  I see myself in 15-20 years from now still in the CFs.  

One reason I took part of this discussion is that we talked about it in our Psychology and Ethics class last week.  The new generation of people enrolling (like myself) was raised in small families, beeing the only one (or almost) our parents cared about.  We had nearly everything we wanted.  That's the same with the jobs..  We are looking for what WE want.  That a bad attitude you'll say?  Perhaps.  But the reality is that, not only the CF, but the industry in general is faced with my kind of people, that will loyaly serve their company/the CF for XX years until it's just not good enough anymore. And I think that all the publicity about the free education comes from those facts.  But if this is always good enough, I'll stay (and I think most of the people would) for 100 years if I can.

Of course it won't always be the perfect job.  None is perfect.  I don't think people will quit for superficial reasons... Anyways, I hope not!!!  

Max

P.S.:  Thanks 23007
 
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